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Papermanbill  (Level: 41.3 - Posts: 1312)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 8:22 AM


I just went through a stack of junk mail and I found a very important notification. I received a brochure from the Cook County
(Chicagoland Area) Clerk, David Orr inviting me to vote early, not absentee ballot, starting October 13th through October 30th.
There are about 40 locations to vote in person, electronically or paper ballots. These voting locations will be open at least eight hours per day, except Sunday which will be from 9 AM--Noon. I am assuming this will give working people and more seniors a chance to avoid the possible crowded situations that occur voting day. It also allows ballots to get lost or tampered with. I believe Florida has voting like this, LMK Donna.

I have been seeing on TV that you can sign up to vote "and vote" on election day in certain states. I am one of the minority who believes in making every person over the age of sixteen have a pictured national ID. This ID, besides your living information, would have your citizenship status. This card would be used for general information and be required for the person to have
when applying for their driver's license. I have heard opponents of this say how much it would cost and some would say it infringes on the rights of others. After 9/11, I say "Infringe On".

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4593)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 8:41 AM

I agree with you so strongly, Bill. I've been an election judge before and though the majority of people just did their thing, there were a few who you couldn't be sure about. In 1992, my 3333 Texas precinct voted majority for Ross Perot over Bush Sr. or Clinton. Yet, to hear the news, Perot hardly showed in any precinct.

Voting is one thing we should be able to be sure about. But I no longer worry about ballots. We have computer voting in Texas now and THAT scares me deeply. Who ever thought that was a good idea? Nothing could be so easy to manipulate and corrupt. Anyone with a computer knows there could be nothing worse.

In the last election, I believe there was a computer with 800 votes already cast on it (in Missouri?) before the time voting opened. And it wasn't from early voting. It was reported as merely a glitch. God help us all.

I think any chance of fair elections is pretty much gone in the US. I fear organized corruption beyond any ability to correct. There are too many people who want what they want more than they want a tamper-proof election and an honest outcome.

Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 8:45 AM

Have there been a lot of cases of people who don't exist voting? I realize that there have been some cases of fraudulent voter registration. I think that this should be fully prosecuted if proven, just as illegally purging voters should.

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4593)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 9:56 AM

Harris County's voter registration roll (crossreferenced) with the Social Security death index and found more than 4,000 matches -- registered voters that, it appears, are already dead:

ACORN in Missouri: ""We have identified about 100 duplicates, and probably 280 addresses that don't exist, people who have driver's license numbers that won't verify or Social Security numbers that won't verify. Some have no address at all.":

ACORN (Nevada) had hired 59 felons through a work release program as canvassers and submitted nearly 300 apparently fraudulent voter registration cards as part of the drive:

Just for a quick start.

Papermanbill  (Level: 41.3 - Posts: 1312)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 10:09 AM

During the Kennedy-Nixon election in 1960, my grandmother was a judge of election (Republican judge) in Chicago.
She was sitting at her post and some joker came in and said he was my grandfather, who died a year before. She took her
time and got the precinct Cop and this guy spent the night in the luxurious Marquette Police station, which was down the street.

Bbear  (Level: 166.9 - Posts: 2297)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 11:01 AM

The act of being able to register and vote on the same day happened this year in Ohio and was very controversial. Apparently buses of homeless were carted from polling place to polling place and voted as many as 20 times.

The majority owner of a voting machine company mysteriously won an election he was not expected too. When asked for a recount it was discovered that the machines were "paperless" and therefore there was no paper trail to see how many original votes there were.

Although I personally know 3 people that voted for Perot in the last election, he received NO votes in my district. Interesting.

Although, it all beats the alternative of not being able to vote at all......

Rowlanda  (Level: 70.0 - Posts: 2853)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 12:11 PM

Happens in Canada too....

I was the Official Returning Offier at our local Polling station
Everyone who came in was complaing about the Conservative
candidate....there were complaints all day about people not
being properly registered at the Polling Stations.
Then we heard about various Stations running out of Voting slips
so, many people were unable to vote at all....those complaints
came mostly from the working class areas in our city....

And the Conservative candidate was re-elected !!!!

Tsk9653  (Level: 113.2 - Posts: 1466)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 12:22 PM

1. Being able to vote in a corrupt election is not better than not being able to vote at all. It is the worst of all worlds. It permits the corrupt entrenched powers to point to an alleged democratic process, pacifying a populace that would otherwise rebel at submitting to a government corruptly selected.

2. Computerized voting is the biggest hoax upon the electorate yet. Nobody should trust any of the computer voting systems that do not have auditible paper trails. In Michigan (and similarly situated states), which is now using optical scan ballots tabulated by computer, the situation is somewhat better. At least if somebody wants a recount, you can go back to the paper ballots. I was involved in many election cases as a lawyer. The great irony to me is that the much maligned punchcard voting is actually much more accurate than the computer systems. The optiscan systems have a serious problem of undercounting votes on particular races. Recounts using the optiscan systems in Michigan invariably result in all candidates obtaining additional votes. Michigan hasn't taken the next step to ensure electoral integrity by requiring hand recounts of any election decided by 1% or less of the popular vote.

3. I oppose a national identity card. I'm not saying this is true of our Papermanbill, but i am amazed at the number of people who sneer at the government's alleged inability to do anything right, but who support the national identity card. No doubt, hundreds of thousands of residents would be involved in long bureaucratic nightmares over issues relating to national ID cards. The national ID card is not a big issue for me anymore, however, as the advent of the computer age has already deprived virtually all citizens of the ability to escape the monitoring of government and large corporations.

4. Jank, maybe those people were dead, and maybe they weren't. Examples of living people who Social Sceurity shows as dead are legion and frequent.

5. I personally believe that the Republicans stole both the 2000 and 2004 elections. I would not be surprised were it to happen again, but, what the hey, at least we got to vote.

Papermanbill  (Level: 41.3 - Posts: 1312)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 12:44 PM

Tim, You are way out of my league when it comes to the legal stuff and I will not dispute something if I'm not qualified.
I will start a discussion regarding the ID cards later in time. I do agree with you on 2000 and 2004. Isn't is crazy to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on electronic voting when you could get fifth and sixth grade kids to give you fair and accurate results. I think a few 2 liter bottles of Pop and some good pizza would suffice as wages, too,

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4593)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 2:56 PM

I can understand you believing the election in 2000 being stolen, but on what do you base that belief in the 2004 election?

Tsk9653  (Level: 113.2 - Posts: 1466)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 3:28 PM

Jank, we actually agree on the computer voting scam. This suggests to me an interest in the fairness of the process that I wouldn't have expected based on some of your other more traditional partisan posts. So, I'm going to have to give greater thought to your posts in the future. I agree that paper ballots could be accurately counted by 5th graders, and I personally would have more faith in those results than of computer tabulated results -- with or without verifiable paper trail. It would certainly cost governments less money.

As to the 2004 election -- which I concede up front is not as obviously a stolen election as 2000 -- centers on Ohio. My views are principally based on the book "What Happened In Ohio?" by Robert Fitrakis, Steven Rosenfeld, and Harvey Wasserman published in 2006 by The New Press. I believe the evidence suggests a variety of tactics used in different Ohio counties to suppress and/or steal votes. What is good about this book is that it reproduces over 100 original documents to document what happened.

Tsk9653  (Level: 113.2 - Posts: 1466)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 3:37 PM

Sorry. Although I do think Jank and I agree on the computerized voting systems, I was actually replying to Bill's post, with which I (obviously) agreed. These computerized election systems are another example of (a) corporations either hoodwinking naive governmental officials or (b) government officials paying back and/or being bribed to needlessly expend tax dollars. What our money has bought are inferior voting systems that bring into serious question the accuracy of electoral outcomes.

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4593)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 3:45 PM

Well, I didn't know anything I said would lead anyone to think I would be for an illegal election.

If Obama wins fair and square, he's my president. I'm scared of him, but if the majority of Americans vote the electoral college to vote for Obama, the democracy has spoken and it's a done deal.

If McCain wins fair and square, he's my president.

I've said several times that I vote my conscience and the platform with which I agree, and I will be writing in Duncan Hunter for president (which I don't even know how to do on a computer.)

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4593)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 3:47 PM

Oh - I meant to say, I'll look into the book. Thanks for sharing.

Kaufman  (Level: 267.7 - Posts: 3941)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 4:46 PM

And if either Obama or McCain wins unfair and unsquare, will we ever know???????

Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 4:54 PM

True, and whoever wins, the other side will call foul. Are there any planets out there, ready for pioneers?

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4593)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 4:56 PM

If there were, we'd go and screw it up. Same problems, different human names.

Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 5:01 PM

True. I can see Mars renamed "Halliburton Place" with Dick Cheney as overlord.

Kaufman  (Level: 267.7 - Posts: 3941)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 5:08 PM

Don't look now, but there's already a Nike asteroid.

Diva305  (Level: 152.5 - Posts: 1655)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 6:32 PM

Sorry Paperman I guess I put this in the wrong thread.

Previously posted in Obama's Friends:

By any means necessary.
Doesn't it make you proud?
Rotten Acorn

O'jahnae Smith is ready and registered to vote this November.

There's only one problem: She's 7 years old.

The Connecticut girl is 11 years too young - and nobody in her family knows how she ended up on a voter registration form submitted by ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now.

"She's registered to vote?" said a surprised Jerome Smith, O'jahnae's teenage brother. "She's too young to vote."

But that didn't stop someone from forging the child's signature on a voter registration card and giving her a fake birth date that upped her age to 27. The family told The Post a drug-addicted relative may have given the bogus card to ACORN.

Voter registration fraud complaints like these continue to mount for the group, already under scrutiny in 11 states where hundreds, if not thousands, of new registrations are being questioned.

ACORN volunteers have been found to register dead people and even put members of the Dallas Cowboys on Nevada lists.

The community organizing group has a long history of flooding low- and middle-income neighborhoods in election years with temporary workers instructed to register 20 to 25 voters per day - or risk getting fired.

Most states prohibit paying per signature, but ACORN workers earning $8 to $9 an hour still have to hit their quotas. And many need the money - including some ex-cons in work-release programs.

ACORN's controversial tactics have fueled John McCain's criticism of Barack Obama, whose campaign paid an ACORN spinoff - Community Services Inc. - about $800,000 to knock on doors and urge people to vote for Obama in four key primary states: Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Texas.

In his pre-politics days, Obama ran the Illinois chapter of Project Vote in 1992, before it hooked up with ACORN.

McCain campaign manager Rick Davis on Friday called for a freeze on taxpayer dollars to ACORN until recent allegations have been investigated.

Meanwhile, state authorities in New Mexico, Indiana, Missouri, Connecticut, Ohio, Florida, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Nevada have launched probes of bogus voter registration forms filed by ACORN.

Roberta Casteel, a nurse, is one of several dozen Nevada voters caught in the web of fake ACORN registrations. Casteel, a registered voter since 1991, was shocked to receive a letter rejecting a voter application she didn't know she'd made.

Authorities said they'd received two voter applications in her name: one as a Democrat and one as an independent. Both cards had her address, date of birth and Social Security number, and were submitted by ACORN workers. Neither signature matched her original one on file.

A former ACORN worker in Pennsylvania has already been charged with 17 counts of identity theft and forgery.

Other states are sifting through cartons of suspicious forms.

The ACORN shenanigans likely won't rise to actual voting fraud, stressed election law expert Terri Enns at Ohio State University.

"ACORN's problematic registrations create extra work for election boards, because they have to check them, but it's not double voting," she said.


Ohio. Nevada. Connecticut. Indiana. Michigan. Missouri. New Mexico. North Carolina. Wisconsin.

That's the list of states where investigations are under way into allegations of fraud in the new-voter registrations collected by Barack Obama's preferred collection of "community organizers," the radical extremists of ACORN.

In some cases, however, ACORN is getting some high-placed help - from the (Democratic) state officials whose job should include uncovering voting fraud.

In Ohio, for example, a federal judge ruled that Democratic Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner is violating the law by refusing to allow county election boards to verify the identities of voters newly registered by ACORN.

"It is hard to imagine a public interest more compelling than safeguarding the legitimacy of the election of the president of the United States," ruled Judge George Smith.

But Brunner - who's appointed an ACORN rep to one of her advisory committees - claims that the complaints are just "allegations that don't have any evidence to support them."

In Ohio's Cuyahoga County found one 19-year-old who admitted he'd registered to vote 72 times with ACORN in return for cash and cigarettes - a felony in that state.

Two other voters told MacIntosh that ACORN persuaded them into multiple registrations - one of them having signed up to vote "10 to 15" times.

The Wall Street Journal reports that ACORN has registered new Buckeye voters who just happen to be named Mary Poppins, Dick Tracy and Jive Turkey.

And that's just in Ohio.

In the Indianapolis metro area, ACORN has been so successful that the number of registered voters now stands at 105 percent of the voting-age population.

All in all, ACORN has filed 3 million new voter registrations since 2004 - more than enough votes to decide a close election.

And where do you suppose those votes collected by ACORN are going?


* ACORN's political-action committee has endorsed Barack Obama.

* Obama's presidential campaign has paid an ACORN front $832,000 for get-out-the-vote activities.

* Before launching his electoral career, Obama was the Illinois coordinator for ACORN's voter-registration group, Project Vote.

* As a lawyer, Obama represented ACORN in a voter-registration suit against the state of Illinois.

* Michelle Obama's old law firm represents ACORN in an embezzlement cover-up case involving the brother of the group's founder.

To date, Obama's campaign has been silent about the ACORN connection, let alone the group's dubious voter-registration efforts.

But that silence speaks volumes about the kind of company Obama keeps - and the lengths to which he and his allies apparently will go to win this election.

Rev Wright
Tony Rezko
Michelle Obama
Louis Farrakhan
William Ayres
Bernadine Dorhn
Rashid Khalidi
Nadhmi Auchi
Frank Marshall Davis
Saul Alinsky
Father Pfleger
Kwame Kilpatrick
Rev Meeks
George Soros
Raila Odingo
Abongo Obama
Black Panthers
Jim Johnson
Franklin Raines
Ahmad Yousuf (Hamas)
Fidel, Raul Castro
Hugo Chavez
Daniel Ortega
Kim Jong

Obama...Change you can bereave in!

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 6:54 PM

Diva305  (Level: 152.5 - Posts: 1655)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 8:06 PM

Smoke and Mirrors
I fail to see a reference to voter fraud on the link you posted.


or google Acorn Voter Fraud

or Acorn Obama

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 8:33 PM

Political ADD

Diva305  (Level: 152.5 - Posts: 1655)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 8:37 PM

Or here's an idea!

Click on Janice's (Jank) links.

Wow! 80,000 Nevada residents ACORN signed up.

You do know Obama cut his ideological teeth working with ACORN as a "community organizer" and legal representative. Naturally, ACORN's political action committee has warmly endorsed his presidential candidacy.

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 8:41 PM

Diva305  (Level: 152.5 - Posts: 1655)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 9:08 PM


Cleveland Paper: Obama's Lying About ACORN
The Cleveland Leader reports this morning that Barack Obama is lying about his involvement with the group ACORN, which recently added Missouri to the list of states in which its activities are under investigation. While Obama's site maintains that he never trained ACORN activists -- whose training apparently encourages them to play fast and loose with election laws -- Chicago ACORN leader Toni Foulkes has thanked Obama for doing precisely that:

Since then, we have invited Obama to our leadership training sessions to run the session on power every year, and, as a result, many of our newly developing leaders got to know him before he ever ran for office. Thus it was natural for many of us to be active volunteers in his first campaign for State Senate and then his failed bid for U.S. Congress in 1996. By the time he ran for U.S. Senate, we were old friends."

The Los Angeles Times has reported the same. Given all the improprieties with which ACORN has been associated in the past, as well as the accusations against it this year, it's easy to see why Obama hopes the media will ignore this issue.

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 10:16 PM

"Cleveland Leader" is supposed to be the same as the Plain Dealer, apparently? Also a very conservative paper. Is the quote from A "Cleveland paper" or from a blog accessed through the paper? it makes a teensy difference in credibility.

Here is the article the paper ran today, looks like the only people calling Obama a liar is the McCain campaign.

May I please have a link to where the LA Times "says the same" (same as what?)

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 10:27 PM

Here's the other article from the Cleveland paper about the voter registration irregularities. You'll notice two words missing from the article - Barack Obama.

Diva305  (Level: 152.5 - Posts: 1655)
Sun, 12th Oct '08 11:49 PM

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Mon, 13th Oct '08 12:01 AM

Why are you calling me snide variations of my name? I've never seen that on Sploofus before.

Violetblue  (Level: 112.2 - Posts: 853)
Mon, 13th Oct '08 12:11 AM

I think it's supposed to be clever, Donna. Don'no. :D

Stone  (Level: 35.0 - Posts: 259)
Mon, 13th Oct '08 6:02 PM

FROM THE GREAT STATE OF LOUISIANA, HOME OF HUEY LONG AND EARL K. LONG: You may need to read some history to know why I mention them. OOH, I forgot Edwin Edwards, too.
As a teenager, many of the "block captains" in my parish (county) went to jail for voting irregularities. The slogans "Vote early and Vote Often" were literal for these party workers. Also, many voters who had died were found to have voted after death. This was the late sixties and early seventies. On Oct 4, this month, I complained to the precinct captain about the electioneering that was occurring less than 200 feet from the polling place. The limit is none within 600 feet. I called the DA, only to be given the phone number of someone who didn't answer. I called the Registrar and they said they would send the deputies out. The signs and people were removed. It amuses me that we were electing a new DA and numerous judges who never communicate well enough with their workers to keep them within the law.

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4593)
Mon, 13th Oct '08 7:38 PM

Wow. When I was an election judge (Texas), they grilled us on the laws and I was scared to death to let any of my workers even LOOK like they MIGHT THINK about doing anything wrong. My sgt at arms patrolled that electioneering line with not even one attempt at an incident. I was so proud of everyone. Just to have the media report our results wrong.

On the other hand, when I lived in Amarillo in the 70s and was able to vote in my very first election, I knew my vote had counted.

In 1972, I wrote in Ronald Reagan's name (I had voted for him in the primary, and by golly, he was who I wanted and I wasn't going to vote for anyone but who I wanted.) The Amarillo TV news reported that there had been ONE write-in vote in my precinct! hahahaha

And for the record, I wrote in his name in 76, also, which was again reported on the TV news.

Then finally, the rest of the country decided I wasn't going to quit till they got on board, and I got to just regular vote for Reagan as the presidential candidate in 80 and 84. So I was 35 before I voted for anyone other than Ronald Reagan for president.

Kaufman  (Level: 267.7 - Posts: 3941)
Mon, 13th Oct '08 9:23 PM

Maryland doesn't allow write-ins in the primaries; only the general election

Stupid parties.

Diva305  (Level: 152.5 - Posts: 1655)
Mon, 13th Oct '08 10:08 PM

Diva305  (Level: 152.5 - Posts: 1655)
Mon, 13th Oct '08 10:48 PM


ACORN, Project VOTE and The NEW Party share the same address
88 Third Avenue, Third Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11217

Project Vote
88 Third Avenue, Third Floor
Brooklyn, NY 11217

The New Party is an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer. Women and people of color are strongly encouraged to apply.

To apply: Send resume, five references, and a letter of interest to: New Party, 88 Third Avenue, Ste 313, Brooklyn, NY 11217. If possible, please also e-mail letter and resume to

88 Third Avenue, Suite 313
Brooklyn, NY 11217
phone: 1-800-200-1294

National Campaign for Jobs and Income Support
88 Third Avenue, 3rd Floor
New York, NY 11217

Diva305  (Level: 152.5 - Posts: 1655)
Tue, 14th Oct '08 12:27 AM

Correction on the Sun-Sentinel link:

Just in case anyone cares.

Chickfbref1  (Level: 120.7 - Posts: 2011)
Tue, 14th Oct '08 12:45 AM

What in the NAME OF GOD is the big deal about registering dead people and minors to vote? In Chicago it's mandatory.


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