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garrybl
Garrybl  (Level: 280.2 - Posts: 6644)
Sun, 23rd Nov '08 6:00 PM

PLATINUM WORD PUZZLE SETTERS

I love setting Word Puzzles. I'm not really looking for a reward (the cries of pain are sufficient). But I'm absolutely positive that payment of a wager token would be way out of line.

However...what does anyone think about the idea of getting one tenth of a token. So sertting ten puzzles gets you a wager token?

Barry

kaelin
Kaelin  (Level: 49.2 - Posts: 1685)
Sun, 23rd Nov '08 6:27 PM

I'm not sure earning a wager token would be out of line - as many as submit it would take a long time for a full token to come in existence - I know it's a perk of platinum but those who might consider going platinum if they get to do word puzzles AND earn a wager token - might up the variety - as well as the plats - if I remember correctly Gary you actually went platinum because of the contest or am I remembering the wrong person?

garrybl
Garrybl  (Level: 280.2 - Posts: 6644)
Sun, 23rd Nov '08 6:59 PM

no that is absolutely right.
The puzzle got me to go platinum and I don't regret it!
Barry

bbear
Bbear  (Level: 161.7 - Posts: 2301)
Sun, 23rd Nov '08 7:21 PM

I think the idea of getting a wager token for submitted a WP is a GREAT idea. May get more folks to platiumize themselves.

I think we should get one for submitted quizzes that will become a tournament, too!!

I think I should get one just for being me.....

kaufman
Kaufman  (Level: 257.1 - Posts: 3936)
Sun, 23rd Nov '08 8:13 PM

Just to be contrary ...

The Platipuzzles have by and large been great. All you have to do is see the posted reviews from yourselves to see that. But what will happen if we authors start being rewarded with tokens? Some of us will pump out more, favoring quantity over quality. I probably will, won't you? And soon, some of us will be putting out crap -- any ten words on a shingle -- just so we can run it through and get another token. Good for the author, but not so good for the rest of us who have to do them. Is this what we want?

Word puzzles, more than anything else according to many of my conversations, are the crack that induces people to buy paid memberships. Water down the quality, and poor Justin's income will fade.

alvandy
Alvandy  (Level: 229.7 - Posts: 7573)
Sun, 23rd Nov '08 9:31 PM

For the most part, Kaufman has stated my opinion as well.
Receiving wager tokens for special contest tournaments only is a fair reward, but it would undoubtedly lower the quality of submitted word puzzles in the general scheme of things.



kaelin
Kaelin  (Level: 49.2 - Posts: 1685)
Sun, 23rd Nov '08 10:08 PM

Well - the editors reject quizzes, trivia squares and kerblunks on a daily basis...you are only supposed to submit one word puzzle at a time - so it would seem that a reject rule would be in place for puzzles too - there are criteria set up for all other types of member participation. Back and forth goes on between the editor anyway for making the puzzles better, or suggestions from your word puzzle editor - I know I had one however far back it was and my editor was kind enough to make a statement about the flack it might receive because of my use of a particular letter that members always seem to hate.

Honestly though - only 60-62 puzzles can run in a month - or 56 in February or 58 in leap year...and if a person can only submit another puzzle after their last puzzle has run and more people up to platinum, and like I said, a wider variety and style and more participation from more members come out - it seems logical that a wager token for growth would be something trivial for Justin to offer.

Personally I think an email should have gone out to all Sploofus members for the plati contest - although I realize it was a test so it was only posted on the board...if it creates more platinum members, that can only be good for Justin I would think - the privileges of membership.

If it were to become a regular thing, it seems it would also take some pressure off the editors to come up with puzzles all the time - but if contests are continued, a "voting script" similar to how we rate quizzes, trivia sqaures and kerblunks might be in order - heck, no matter who writes it - it might be good - it would give Justin & the editors feedback on what the majority likes.

But I'm just brainstorming....

bigdavy
Bigdavy  (Level: 131.3 - Posts: 529)
Mon, 24th Nov '08 2:48 PM

Several weeks ago I was thinking that a wager token for submitting a WP would be a nice reward. Now I tend to agree that a wager token is too big of a reward. Not because WP quality would suffer due to folks eager for tokens, but instead because wager tokens can translate to a HUGE number of points -- millions, tens of millions, even hundreds of millions if you've been here long enough. And I don't think submitting a WP is worth millions of points. I realize a wager token is not a guarantee (and some folks don't even use 'em) but the potential is there.

I like the current token system, because the wager tokens and showdown tokens show up at regular intervals, so we all have the opportunity to get them at the same rate (except for the occasional tournament prize like we just had). I like that people are moving up and down the leaderboards largely based on their skill at question-answering (and their skill at wagering).

As for a "tenth of a token", it would take some people years to get to 10 WPs, and be a pain for the editors to keep track of, so I'm not in favor of that either.

I suggest that it could work more like the Who/Where prize, which is a set number of points. It needn't be as high as the WTHAI's 100,000 prize, instead it could be 10,000 or 50,000 points for example. This way there is some reward involved for WP creation, but it isn't excessive. (I realize that "excessive" is in the eye of the beholder!)

Also, if someone currently has a low number of points, the prospect of getting 50,000 points by writing a WP would be an enticement to start writing, and some folks might even upgrade to Platinum just so they could get these points.

My two cents.

- bigdavy

bbear
Bbear  (Level: 161.7 - Posts: 2301)
Mon, 24th Nov '08 3:07 PM

If I write a WP do I get 1/10 of a pony?

I'll take the right front leg, please.

tresgatos
Tresgatos  (Level: 205.1 - Posts: 4198)
Mon, 24th Nov '08 3:28 PM

Excellent post, Dave!

Bigdavy states many of my own concerns regarding handing out wager tokens for writing WPs. I too think it's too much. And like Ken (Kaufman), I also have concerns about WP quality deteriorating.

Personally, I'm happy with the rewards I receive now for writing WPs. We already get our name in the spotlight for 12 hours, about 300 people take our WPs, we get a feedback thread devoted to our WP in Salty Dog, we get a minimum of 5000 points for taking our own WP, we get the satisfaction of knowing we've contributed something valuable to Sploofus, we get the pleasure of exercising our creativity, and we get our own personal editor. Mine sends me tea and scones through the PM link every now and then. (Thanks, Sploofinder!)

In any case, I think Dave's argument is the strongest and most sensible for not issuing wager tokens. If the majority of WP authors feel they need further incentive to write, however, I think Dave's suggestion of awarding more points would be fair. However, I think 50,000 is too much.

-- Geri



1mks
1mks  (Level: 211.2 - Posts: 5887)
Mon, 24th Nov '08 3:42 PM

I basically come here to have fun and hopefully learn something. I'm not one of those hungry for points people......especially when I found out that I couldn't turn them in for a "thigh master".

tresgatos
Tresgatos  (Level: 205.1 - Posts: 4198)
Mon, 24th Nov '08 4:17 PM

Thanks for mentioning FUN. I left that out of my list of rewards we already get for writing WPs. Fun, fun, fun!

-- Geri

papermanbill
Papermanbill  (Level: 41.3 - Posts: 1313)
Mon, 24th Nov '08 4:29 PM

Geri and Bigdavy, Why not give out the points. If you remember when we went to 2.0, I suggested we all go back and start at zero, nobody even said I was nuts. Points don't mean anything to me, but I don't like blowing them on unfair and inaccurate questions (and we all know they are out there). At this time, I have over 1.5 "Billion" points, does that mean I am smarter or know more about Trivia than all the rest below me ?? No, it means I got lucky on some wagers and in my case, I wrote 200 good quizzes and Ker-Blunks. As many of you know, I have written over ten Word Puzzles and I receive a pretty good approval rating (both in the Forum and by PM). I did enter the contest but (for fairness) I did not do my usual "Fours" puzzle format. I did the puzzle on African American Greats which was chopped up because of complaints by players from previous entrees, they even changed my clues (?). There are other sites on the internet that not only give points, but chances for cash prizes, too. I don't see giving an entire wager token per puzzle for writing or how about top score, too.

papermanbill
Papermanbill  (Level: 41.3 - Posts: 1313)
Mon, 24th Nov '08 4:33 PM

Re my last sentence: I should've written, "I don't see anything wrong in giving wager tokens for writing or top scores on the Word Puzzles.

oldcougar
Oldcougar  (Level: 220.4 - Posts: 1935)
Mon, 24th Nov '08 4:49 PM

While I appreciate the arguments against a token per puzzle, perhaps a token per month or some amount of points would be appropriate. WP's are time consuming to write & if you do a Quiz or Kerblunk you are rewarded with extra points. Several WP authors have been royally reamed out both publicly & by PM's so I'm sure there is not much prestige or fun in that, witness the number of players who submitted when they were anonymous. I think more players would write them & even upgrade to platinum if there was some incentive. As to quality, some a very good & some not so much now, this was true, even when it was only editors writing them. Each of us has our favourite styles & there have been a number with factual errors, so . . .

pepperdoc
Pepperdoc  (Level: 152.5 - Posts: 4286)
Mon, 24th Nov '08 4:49 PM

So far, I like Bigdavy's idea the best. Points are relative. If you're new, 50,000 points is a big deal (plus, you haven't yet learned that it won't get you that thighmaster or pony). If you're a billionaire it's chump change (just ask Mark Cuban).

Some people are sensitive to where they are on the All Time Leaderboard, while others couldn't give a flying fig. Some use points to set goals for themselves and play against their own records. (JFTR, if points don't mean anything, why have them at all?) And some are probably benchmarking themselves against other players.

The incentives for Sploofus activities appear to be relative to the effort, skill, time, etc. related to that activity. To get a Gold Nugget for example, some people have to wait weeks or months just to get the chance. And in the meantime they've played hundreds of Word Rounds. The WTHAI can take hours or minutes depending if you spot it quickly. However, many players have tried for months and haven't won one of those with the 100K points or month of Gold reward.

Awarding 100K or a wager token (potentially worth millions) seems excessive reward for WP creation IMHO. I would go for something less, like 25K, or better yet, in the next programming tweak, create a WP writing badge that can be displayed on the WP writer's profile page with a number indicating how many have been written. (Just like there's a badge now for Editor's Awards.)

I think the WP will still have volunteer writers, regardless, since it is darn fun to write one of those.

kaelin
Kaelin  (Level: 49.2 - Posts: 1685)
Mon, 24th Nov '08 5:16 PM

I have 82 showdown tokens I'd trade for 8 wager tokens

tresgatos
Tresgatos  (Level: 205.1 - Posts: 4198)
Mon, 24th Nov '08 5:17 PM

Bill, I'm wondering if you might have misinterpreted Bigdavy's and my post? Dave proposed rewarding WP authors with 50,000 points. I said I thought awarding points for authorship would be fair, but I thought 50,000 was too much. So, I'm not necessarily against awarding points. I just don't care about getting any extra for myself for writing WPs.

Moving on, excellent post Pepper! I like the idea of a WP authoring badge on our profile pages the best.

-- Geri




bbear
Bbear  (Level: 161.7 - Posts: 2301)
Mon, 24th Nov '08 5:55 PM

I don't know how many I have written, but it is a bunch. They really do take a long time, a lot of conversation with the editor, but I love writing them.
I don't want points, wouldn't mind a token now and then but would LOVE recognition on my page, just like the number of EAs or somesuch.

Editors/Justin, how does that sound?

kaufman
Kaufman  (Level: 257.1 - Posts: 3936)
Mon, 24th Nov '08 6:15 PM

Another option would be to reward authors with a few extra days of Platinum membership per Puzzle written.

As for that tenth of a pony, I'm not sure it's a good idea. Sure, you might get a leg, but 10% of the time you'd be Godfathered, and another 10%, you'd find me at your door.

papermanbill
Papermanbill  (Level: 41.3 - Posts: 1313)
Mon, 24th Nov '08 6:51 PM

Has anyone given the thought that you can lose several hundred million points "IF" you are wrong with your answer???????


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