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Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Thu, 27th Nov '08 4:15 PM


Very broad title, but I wasn't sure where to put this other discussion, and I have no desire to limit it....if you guys want to splinter off on this one, feel free!! Here's the discussion so far.....

Davidf: I wonder what drives a person. Schopenhauer suggests that a child inherits will from the father and knowledge from the mother. People may want something but their knowledge suggests otherwise. Is human behaviour a result of a persons genes, their upbringing, cultural location, or simply individuality. Why do people do the things they do, or why do people not do certain things.

Davidf: I am thinking John Locke and the Two Treatises of Government

Luvnmexsun: Ah, as a person spending decades in education, the nature versus nurture argument is tantalizing. Studies of twins separated at birth, birth order tendencies within families, adopted children's growth and development (even physically) are fascinating.

Problem is for every generalization, there is an exception. For example, in recent research there is much evidence of brian differences in homosexuals. That made sense to me. On the other hand, one of my best friends, a homosexual, was adopted at birth. His brother, two years younger was adopted at birth. There is absolutely no genetic connection, they are even different nationalites (Irish and Asian). Parents were educated Hispanics, one a teacher. The brothers were never close.

They both hid their life style from the world and their parents, until my friend came out of the closet after his 40th birthday. He had AIDS. He agreed to a study for homosexuality and brain research. No distinction found. His brother agreed to the same tests. The expected difference for homosexuals was evident. He then came out of the closet, had been a homosexual all his life too. Why did my friend become a homosexual then? Environment? Hispanic Catholics are notorious in their fear of homosexuality (at least in my part of the world). My friend believes his preference was part of his rebellion and the strict, narrow minded attitude of his parents and culture. Maybe.

Now birth order is fascinating to consider.

David agreed and wanted to how fascinating birth order was, and suggested seperate threads for discussion.

Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Thu, 27th Nov '08 4:32 PM

Sun's comment about "exceptions" reminds me of a quote from William James' the Varieties of Religious Experience.

"It is true that we instinctively recoil from seeing an object to which our emotions and affections are committed handled by the intellect as any other object is handled. The first thing the intellect does with an object is to class it along with something else. But any object that is infinitely important to us and awakens our devotion feels to us also as if it must be sui generuis and unique. Probably a crab would be filled with a sense of personal outrage if it could hear us class it without ado or apology as a crustacean, and thus dispose of it. "I am no such thing, it would say; I am MYSELF, MYSELF alone."

Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Thu, 27th Nov '08 10:51 PM

I guess the reason I pointed that out is because in practice many government programs use science, which tends to classify things into groups, and put programs into place that are intended to "fix" the problem based off of generalities. Those who don't fit the general pattern sometimes have difficulties in these programs, and I think eduction work this way as well. Sometimes I even think that this tendency to classify when it comes to human behavior might even explain to a certain extant the existence of various theories in science regarding human behavior. I swear I've seen individuals who work better under an extreme case of Theory X management as opposed to Theory Y management (and my textbook has them as seperate theories, unlike McGregor), and I'm not sure that we will ever have just one theory or "model" that works best unless these differences disappear, however transitory these theories might be. I guess that was what I was thinking, ran out of time due to Thanksgiving! Happy thanksgiving by the way...Not sure I contributed anything to David's original discussion, if not, carry on!

Gfawkes  (Level: 36.2 - Posts: 30)
Thu, 27th Nov '08 11:40 PM

I used to think human behaviour should be as predictable as billiard shots. My revised theory is that people are like panes of glass, seemingly uniform but harboring concealed weaknesses. When stressed the pane shatters in unexpected ways, but still determined by the internal structural flaws.

Davidf  (Level: 102.1 - Posts: 746)
Tue, 2nd Dec '08 8:41 AM

I think humans are predominantly self driven, not for the greater good, for the better me. Highly evolved equals greatly wanting.

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