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caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Tue, 17th Feb '09 12:18 PM

OUTRAGED

Just heard the mayor of Lansing, Mi. on TV. I was embarrassed for him and angered by him. He refused to answer a direct question and went on to say that he would not apologize that his dad had worked for GM and thus he had straight teeth and said the working Americans are outraged by Wall Street and Corporate America. He is correct that I am. I am, however, outraged as well that folks who don't make their mortgage payments on time will get bailed out as will GM once again. Many certainly not all of those people should not have received those mortgages in the first place. People like Barney Frank shouted them through. I can remember resenting it a bit that A GM line worker got paid better and had better benefits than I did. It just seems like it is time for GM to go bankrupt as it should have been for the crooked banks and folks like AIG. Seems it boils down to both the UAW giving as well as the bond holders or keep pouring good money after bad. I know it is the legacy health care costs that need to be renegotiated by the UAW and that is tough because it affects people my age who will get retirement benefits cut. However, my pension nor my health care will not benefit by the bailout of GM or any other entity. Trust me am looking at my pension as it comes from the State of Mi. Maybe it boils down toi card check and no free trade so the BIg 3 can compete-don't know. I just know I was a working American all of my adult life and am sick of this whole mess- Linda

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Tue, 17th Feb '09 12:36 PM

What I resent greatly is his implication that if I? don't support the bailout of GM, I somehow support big banks and wall street. Much the same message was put out there by the President that if people did not support the pork-filled package and pas it fast, they somehow didn't care about people being out of jobs. Find it interesting that urgency was needed to such an extent that it was passed almost in the middle of Friday night before anyone including the folks who voted n it had a chance to read it. Then Nancy was off to Italy to spend time with the Pope and the President was off to Chicago for a long weekend to get a hair cut and play some basketball and take his wife out for Valentine's Day. It will be politically signed sometime today (tues.) in Denver.-so much for urgency -the urgency was to push this monstrosity through before anyone knew what was in it. I am really waiting for a person who matters to speak for me. I amn not going to take it any6 more being called against America or the poor or working people or selfish if I don't support something that all my better judgment tells me is wrong and I am too stupid to see the "BIG" picture - Linda

tuzilla
Tuzilla  (Level: 134.1 - Posts: 3778)
Tue, 17th Feb '09 2:13 PM

Please explain to precise when and where GM ever got "bailed out". People love to flippantly toss this buzz term around left and right. As I recall the situation, they were LOANED money which will HAVE TO BE paid back. None of it was a gift like that given to Wall St. and the bankers. You need to get your terminology straight and quit using the Limbaugh/Shelby?Republican Party fact twisting machine.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Tue, 17th Feb '09 2:20 PM

I know that is what it was called, Steve, but for the life of me cannot see GM's plan of when and how they will repay it. I don't listen to Limbaugh and please don't accuse me of being a Wall Street supporter as no more support that bunch of crooks than I do pouring good money after bad anywhere-bridge loan with no viable plan to repay, gift, or bailout same thing different names Maybe I am once again selfishly missing the "BIG" picture.. Linda

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.9 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 17th Feb '09 2:47 PM

I hope the GM/Chrysler loans will be paid back, Steve.

I have my doubts this time.

As for the banks that also happened so fast that possibly better alternatives were never aired.

No wonder Americans are so angry and without good explanations. It all looks like inside dealing.

tuzilla
Tuzilla  (Level: 134.1 - Posts: 3778)
Tue, 17th Feb '09 3:30 PM

I am not accusing you of being a Limbaugh supporter. However, you are using the same tactic as he does. That is the point.

I hope they get paid back, too. I hate to think they won't, but that was not the point of your first post or mine. You called the money a bail out. I said it is a loan. and YES!, I hope it turns out to be a good loan.

To simplify the difference for you: If a ship is sinking, and will go under without aid, and you show up with a bucket and remove the water so the ship will have a chance of not sinking, that is bailing out...or in the case of Wall St. and the banks, you show up with buckets of money a through it to them, that is bailing them out. (And to be precise, the the bail out of Wall St. and the banks is partially a bail out as I described it, and loans, stock purchases, etc, which may bear future fruit). One the ship is saved, no one is going to show up in the future and toss the water back in, or in the case of Wall St. and the banks, making them pay back the portions that was as I described bail out money.

In the case of the auto companies, the money was given to them on a temporary basis, they have to give it all back at some point in the future. None of it was given to them as a gift. No one bailed them out, said there you go,, Have a nice day, and left.

I am not going to dispute your observations, Andy. Many perceive them that way. hope we do not lose the auto industry in this country. If we lose the American auto industry and all of its related supplier plants, Japan and Germany will be catapulted into the position of first and second largest industrial producer countries in the world...and I think many around you know how well that worked out twice last century.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Tue, 17th Feb '09 4:28 PM

This really has nothing to do with your previous post, Steve. Would like to know what happened to E-verify which would have assured that jobs were not given to illegal folks? Both Dems and Repubs voted for it to be put into this monster, but when things took place behind closed doors it disappeared. If this thing is about creating jobs for Americans union or not who and why was it taken out?? Linda

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.9 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 17th Feb '09 4:42 PM

Steve, Japan is soon going to lead the world in auto production. They will soon take over GM etc.

I think the only question is when? GM and Chrysler have made huge strategic errors in recent times.

tuzilla
Tuzilla  (Level: 134.1 - Posts: 3778)
Tue, 17th Feb '09 5:33 PM

You are probably correct, if Japan is not undercut by other Asian nations. However, what one might call strategy errors is another man's sales decisions. When oil prices shot up, GM, etc. were caught with piles of SUVs and trucks. The Japanese, who have steadily been moving into trucks and SUVs still had a major stack in small cars and a couple hybrids. GM, etc. are remiss in not moving faster on hybrids...I won't argue that. I will note that the second oil prices dropped, customer who had been looking at smaller, more fuel efficient cars have already started running back to check out trucks and SUVs. (Prius sales, which were off the hook, have dropped dramatically) Now, if the money gets freed up and loans start getting made, we will see the short-sightedness of the American consumer start snubbing fuel efficient for big vehicles with lotsa toys and whistles. The challenge is for ALL automakers to pull those options off the menu...which will be hard considering the profitability of them, as all the companies know.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.9 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 17th Feb '09 5:55 PM

It's only a matter of time until oil hits $100/bbl and more again. The world today can only supply 85 million bbls a day. We were there last summer and we will be there again.

tuzilla
Tuzilla  (Level: 134.1 - Posts: 3778)
Tue, 17th Feb '09 8:08 PM

You are absolutely right. Now convince that guy with his wife and kids to quit looking at the Yukon and to go look at a high mileage compact. The market is speaking, short sighted as it is, and it is saying SUVs, It is a sad state of affairs.

maurlin
Maurlin  (Level: 213.4 - Posts: 2671)
Tue, 17th Feb '09 9:31 PM

I just got a News Alert:

General Motors told the federal government Tuesday that it needs another $4.6 billion in loans within weeks and an additional $12 billion in financial support in order to stave off bankruptcy.

Read More: http://www.nytimes.com/?emc=na


collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.9 - Posts: 9952)
Wed, 18th Feb '09 4:03 AM

No one is surprised.

GM today is a bottomless pit.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Wed, 18th Feb '09 6:53 AM

Did anyone really believe anybody in this mess is ever going to pay anything back?

If I were on the edge of bankruptcy because I've been going to Vegas and gambling everything I have every weekend for the past year, would anyone think it's a great idea to lend me a bunch of money to pay my bills and then expect me to pay it all back?

Where I come from, we call that "enabling" and it's frowned upon. Or in the words of past generations, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice......."

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Wed, 18th Feb '09 9:02 AM

Hey Jank, looks like you have a Bernie type crook in Texas-just shows you bunch of BIG CROOKs everywhere-politics, industry-Wall Street, and on and on..........

tuzilla
Tuzilla  (Level: 134.1 - Posts: 3778)
Wed, 18th Feb '09 10:14 AM

Well, jank...for example, when Chrysler was loaned money in the 80s, it was paid back with interest. A lot of it will depend on whether people like Shelby and Alabama, and Coker and Tennesse are going to be allowed to continue selling out their citizens and lauding gifts onto foreign manufacturers to obtain plants. The things done in Alabama to get their BMW plant are downright obscene.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Wed, 18th Feb '09 10:28 AM

Chrysler was a whole different thing back then, Steve, and you know it. Linda (If anyone is now guilty of talking things up -creating fear and then talking them down to lower expectations it is the current President)

tuzilla
Tuzilla  (Level: 134.1 - Posts: 3778)
Wed, 18th Feb '09 12:17 PM

Linda, once again, you missed the point. I am talking about the difference between loans and giveaways...which is what they did in Alabama and Tennessee to bribe the companies to locate there.

After nearly 8 years of Homeland Insecurity, I am not going to be drawn into the specious sniding of your other comment.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Wed, 18th Feb '09 1:01 PM

WOW I'm missing everyone's points-so sorry for my fetious snideness ( not sure of that words nor the meaning-but this time I get the point-doesn't change my mind though) still waiting for the campaign to end-Linda

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.9 - Posts: 9952)
Wed, 18th Feb '09 2:05 PM

Attn: Steve

It's called competition.


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