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collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Thu, 19th Feb '09 7:02 PM

OBAMA'S MORTAGE PROPOSAL

From CNBC today

'The government is promoting bad behavior... do we really want to subsidize the losers' mortgages... This is America! How many of you people want to pay for your neighbor's mortgage? President Obama are you listening? How about we all stop paying our mortgage! It's a moral hazard'...

What do you think?

cujgie
Cujgie  (Level: 173.8 - Posts: 754)
Thu, 19th Feb '09 7:15 PM

Supposedly, as banks foreclose on properties, home values will continue to fall, so if homeowners get help to keep their homes, we all will benefit as home prices rise.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Thu, 19th Feb '09 7:28 PM

I don't see any effect on long term prices.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Thu, 19th Feb '09 8:00 PM

Foreclosures in neighborhoods do lower other' s property values-very clear here in FL so I am not arguing with him there. Do know the the price of homes was unrealistically inflated and that the same Frannie and Freddie who are going to be doing the renegotiating put people into those homes who could not realistically afford them. Home owning became a RIGHT not a privilege-pushed through by the likes of Barney Frank I will not live long enough to see the homes in my neighborhood return to the prices they sold for a couple of years ago if they ever do- Linda

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Fri, 20th Feb '09 12:26 AM

I'm just thinking that if someone cannot pay their mortgage, how can they pay for all the repairs and upkeep that every house needs from time to time, which is in addition to the mortgage...

The other day I went by where I lived before I moved away. It was a brand new house when I moved in, in 2002. I sold it in 2004 because I inherited my parents' house in another town, and I moved into the family home to do a lot of repairs.

When I went by my past house, I couldn't believe my eyes. The house is 6 1/2 years old. It is in foreclosure. It is run down and dirty and desperately needs painting. There are broken outdoor lights on the house. It looks like it's 25 years old rather than its real age. It looked perfect when I moved out. (The lady who bought it was a teacher at my school, and not someone who would purposely wreck a house because she was losing it.)

Helping someone keep a mortgage they can't afford doesn't help that house keep its value, nor does it help the neighborhood keeps its value. A house demands much more of the owner than a monthly mortgage payment.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 20th Feb '09 3:41 AM

Foreclosures in neighborhoods do lower others' property values TEMPORARILY, Linda.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Fri, 20th Feb '09 7:50 AM

At my age TEMPORARY is relative. Have noticed very different zoning laws in FL. than in MI. Within neighborhoods her you can find a literal shack amidst very pricey homes. The newer subdivisions all seem to be of some kind of equal value. I live at a four corner stop. My home is in an area which is actually zoned commercial My little house was actually built in the 1920s. The guy before me gutted it and put in new floors, wiring, plumbing, vinyl siding, and walls. Since I have lived here have put in the pergo floors throughout and enclosed the back porch making it another room. However the insurance on it is a killer because of the age of the house-only one co. out of Ft. Lauderdale would insure it at all and they, don't cover any damage caused by wind or water-this is Fl. remember. .

Directly across the street from me is a huge Catholic Church and school. The block is long and they take up the entire block on their side. The also own a property across the opposite corner where they run some kind of residence for mentally handicapped. They keep both properties in excellent condition. Across the other corner is a massive complex of pricey condos. Within a block there is a Staples, a Checkers, a Walmart, and a nursing home. I only have to go a short distance to these subdivisions which were sold at outrageous prices to see the foreclosure signs.

Believe statistics are showing that over haldf of the folks who have had mortgages reworked default again...

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 20th Feb '09 1:20 PM

But, Linda, you digress

What do you think of the taxpayers who didn't overextend themselves paying the mortgages of those who did?

Remember the lead-in to this topic

"The government is promoting bad behavior... do we really want to subsidize the losers' mortgages... This is America! How many of you people want to pay for your neighbor's mortgage? President Obama are you listening? How about we all stop paying our mortgage! It's a moral hazard'..."

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Fri, 20th Feb '09 1:30 PM

I don't want to support deadbeats period!! Is THAT clear enough?? If I could ever quite figure out where you stand on anything other in your theoretical mind might know how to respond to you- Linda

tuzilla
Tuzilla  (Level: 134.2 - Posts: 3779)
Fri, 20th Feb '09 1:40 PM

To solve this entire debate, ask yourself one question. How much will it cost the economy if we don't do this? Economists estimate double or triple. No one has to like this situation, but it is by far the least expensive way out of the mess made by the bad policy decision that started under Reagan, accelerated under Clinton and Bush, and are not a raging wildfire. Sometimes doing nothing is far more expensive that doing something...even if you don't like it.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Fri, 20th Feb '09 1:43 PM

It seems to me, Andy, that you are not looking for anyone to weigh in on anything thus explain themselves. Seems you want to ask a question and then if anyone gives other than an "I Agree" or "I Disagree" you accuse them of being off topic and god help them if they disagree with you-you ought to have made a living conducting POLLS . You have asked me in private to not interrupt before I knew where you were "GOING"-listened and in many areas not sure. Not the way it works here. HERE you say something and it is out there for everyone to jump on as they choose... and it is not always comfortable...

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Fri, 20th Feb '09 1:53 PM

Sorry, Steve, anyway I look at things these days seems like it is costing me, my kids. and grands, with no responsibility by many. As much as I disliked Bill Clinton the man at least he got into policy welfare reform and this new mess has undone it all- Linda

allena
Allena  (Level: 255.9 - Posts: 1392)
Fri, 20th Feb '09 1:58 PM

Wait until you see who gets the help ... the same folks who got no doc. loans from FHA and Freddie Mac. In other words, he is still going to fight mortgage companies who only want to loan to people who have saved, are earning a living and will take care of the property.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Fri, 20th Feb '09 2:05 PM

My point, Jim. Thanks for making it as I tend t let this get very personal-Linda

tuzilla
Tuzilla  (Level: 134.2 - Posts: 3779)
Fri, 20th Feb '09 2:07 PM

That 'not' in my comment should have been a 'now'...now a raging wildfire.

I guess for the sake of your argument we need a definition of 'temporary'. Everything is pretty much temporary if drawn out over enough time...even the universe. The subdivision in which I live was built in the 60s and 70s. It contains about 100 single family homes. The median home value when I moved in was about $125k US. I t climbed to over $150k to about $175K during the boom years. It is now back to about the original value. One my street, there are 3 home which have been for sale for over 1 year. Within the entire subdivision, there are about a dozen unsold home, some surpassing a year. Using my neighbor as an example, they retired and want to move to warmer climes. In order to do this, they must first sell their home, which is 100% paid off. What should they do? Give it away? Hope for a fire? Being witness to something temporary may not seem like a long time or be important to the spectator of a home fire. But to the person inside, it seems like an eternity, and may not have a happy ending.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Fri, 20th Feb '09 3:00 PM

I don't get this. Seems we are going to let deadbeats stay in their homes and let the mortgage value be 105%. Get that but what I don;'t get is a Chicago businessman who owns a restaurant called "MR Beef" cannot get the mortgage on his business renewed. Maybe something I'm missing but from all accounts it is a popular place and a thriving business. The guy has always made his payments on time-someone please explain this... Linda

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 20th Feb '09 3:37 PM

Linda, you digressed. I just directed you to the original question about which I have not expressed any opinion.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Fri, 20th Feb '09 3:55 PM

I can hardly wait for your opinion-seems like Tuz and Jank explained themselves a bit too but sure I am the one who digressed along with always missing your POINT- Linda

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Fri, 20th Feb '09 4:41 PM

Sorry, Andy. I guess I don't take direction well. Usually when people feel that someone has not replied directly to the topic of the post they skip over it and continue. I don't think there has ever been a 'Chat' director here-usually someone gives an opinion or states something and them folks reply. Since you gave no opinion on the President's plan anyone that said anything beyond that they agree or disagree would have digressed by your standard-where is my thought faulted?? Linda

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Fri, 20th Feb '09 4:43 PM

BTW think you misspelled MORTGAGE!!

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 20th Feb '09 4:52 PM

Steve, you make a valid point, but is hurrying along such situations a good use of public money?

smaug
Smaug  (Level: 141.2 - Posts: 2772)
Fri, 20th Feb '09 10:11 PM

I think the CNBC comment is a valuable viewpoint that should be aired in this pell-mell rush to the money printing press.

Where is that money coming from? Borrowed? We already pay a large percentage of our government annual "income" on interest, depending how you slice the numbers, all of it (Grace Commission) or down to a third.

So we throw a couple of more trillion on in bond debt to Japan and China, taxes go up, oops...more people get into mortgage problems.

I'm afraid that, to put this in a homeowners perspective, it is like throwing your mortgage onto a credit card.

Of course, since the government basically decided back in the 70s that every American should be entitled to a cheap mortgage, it should be of no surprise that people who wouldn't qualify in a free market lending environment now find themselves overextended.

Frankly, the situation is so f'ed up and dire, I think we are just going to have to take that next giant step to socialism. Pretty soon...why have a stock market?





caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 3:12 AM

So good to hear you once again give your good intelligent opinion, Smaug, and , of course, I agree with you totally. We are very close to nationalizing banks and think pretty much have in many cases. We now have a large share in the insurance agency and the auto industry. What was it Tex said before he quit?? Linda

diva305
Diva305  (Level: 146.7 - Posts: 1651)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 11:08 AM

Yes They Did!

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 12:44 PM

What did everybody say before they quit?

sandracam
Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 12:48 PM

These institutions got themselves into trouble. Can we not give the stimulus plan a bit of time to work? BTW, these "socialist"countries (western Europe) have a better standard of living than we do. Better health care, and food. Way less people living in poverty.

tuzilla
Tuzilla  (Level: 134.2 - Posts: 3779)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 1:17 PM

This is a lose/lose situation. There is no way for the government to "win". The question is one of being pragmatic...cutting your loses...hedging your bets...covering your backside. It is like the old saying "A stitch in time, saves nine". No one wants to feel the need to make the first stitch. They would prefer everything was fine and in no need of repair. But, when a repair becomes necessary, it is better to fix it now, at whatever the cost, than to put it off and either have to pay for a major repair or an entirely new something at a much higher cost. The government's own figure for for the cost of bankruptcy of the Big 3 is $100,000,000,000, that is 100 billion dollars...way beyond the loan requests. We currently are putting out money as loans, which if repaid, will cost the government nothing, and perhaps even bear interest.

Or maybe, we should just let them die. Then after we shell out the $100B, we can start looking at the next crisis (The Ripple Efffect) as those who lost their jobs stop sending kids to college, going to the movies, buying higher priced grocery items, going to the mall shopping, buying new things from small, like a new bike for Billy to appliances, like fancy TVs, computers, to wish list things like a RV, boat, touring motorcycle. Then when this million people lose there jobs and repeat the cycle. Then, when the back of our pants look like the back of Smaug's chaps, we can sit around a debate whether this is a recession or depression.

And most of this thread can still ponder over the meaning of a stitch in time save nine

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 1:34 PM

Steve, have said before that am no expert on economics. It is becoming VERY clear to me that deadbeats get a free ride and whether I pay for it now or my kids pay for it or their kids pay is a given-the deadbeats don't ever have to pay. I am tired of being presented with the lesser of 2 evils-either evil looks gloomy for me and mine- Linda

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 1:37 PM

Sandy, these socialist countries of Western Europe have a different (but not better/higher) standard oif living.
A few are higher, but most are not.

With health care, for example, you might be better over here until you really get sick, but at that you want to be in the USA.

Food is of higher quality but is significantly more expensive. (BTW it's hard to find a bad-tasting product on a supermarket shelf in France.)





caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 1:38 PM

As for giving something time to work if anyone would slow down on pouring massive amounts of taxpayer money at everything, we might have time to see if something works or at least get a chance to be informed- Linda

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 1:40 PM

Fewer poor and fewer rich and much higher unemployment.





sandracam
Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 1:54 PM

What? Wait for doing the same thing (nothing) to work Linda?
Coll, have you driven around small town America lately? It's dead. At least in Indiana, all the town squares have nothing but boarded up windows and thrift shops.
I hope to hell the stimulus works

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 1:57 PM

Selfish me-tired of trying to see the BIG picture and understand who is the GREATER in the GREATER GOOD!!! Linda

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 1:59 PM

But Sandra, that's been true for years. It hasn't happened over night. Companies and businesses come and go all the time. Since malls, downtowns all over the country have been dealing with boarded up windows.

sandracam
Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 2:15 PM

Too true Jank. It just looks like America is dying to me.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 2:46 PM

Sandy, I was responding to your comment about waiting for the Obama's plans to work-that is I believe what you said. He is the one that wants huge sums in a hurry. I think slowing down a bit might be good. After rushing that whole thing through without anyone knowing what they were voting on -passed late Friday night-he waited until the following Tues. in Denver to sign it. It was announced today that working people will realize a $65.00 a month increase in their paychecks starting in April. Believe working people are paying an awful lot for that $65.00 increase-perhaps once again missing the GRAND plan- Linda

sandracam
Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 3:12 PM

The theory is that smaller amounts doled out over time are more likely to be spent. Lump sums are more likely to be used to pay off debts or tucked away.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 3:38 PM

I understand the theory and obviously the larger refunds didn't work. People are unsure. Lots of debate as to whether FDR pulled the US out of the Depression or the war did. One pundit noted that t least FDR instilled hope in the people while puffing on his cigarette. Same pundit suggested Obama might want to take a few drags, relax, and show the same hope-don't know-just see a whole lot of taxpayer money being flung everywhere with no positive plan for relief.....

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 5:31 PM

I don't know if America is dying, or just slowing down and adjusting - even though that is painful.

I know here there has been WILD economic explosion and house building and apartment building and business building for quite a few years. For that wildness to slow down, it might look like death just by comparison, but might really just be an adjustment because of population and other issues, kind of like the dot com bubble or stocks that were selling at a wildly inflated price above their value (according to economists for the past few years).

I guess I'm saying we just don't know.

As far as the stimulus hurried or slowed down or whatever, Obama promised in his campaign that if he were elected, before any legislation was signed by him, it would be available on the internet for 5 full days for the citizens to read and know what was in it, with time to express their opinion to their leaders. (The original working forms were online but not the final version for several days.) This was his first big legislation, and already that did not happen. Yet he answers to no one for that omission.

From what I understand, much of the stimulus bill does not even take effect for almost two years, so I guess that's somewhat equivalent to being slowed down?

I was/am 100% against the stimulus bill, in the form it was passed. It is the first federal economic bill passage that ever made me cry. There are infinite steps between "doing nothing" and bankrupting the country, as the World Net Daily says we effectively are now at passage of this bill, based on the 2008 Financial Report of the United States Government, as released by the U.S. Department of Treasury. I fear for our children's children. And with the US in such dire instability, there is no end of worldwide enemies who will be glad to move in and exploit those vulnerabilities.

If we are dying, it may be of more than just unemployment and the slowdown of GNP.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 5:39 PM

Sandy, anyone who is counting on the stimulus bill to provide a quick fix will be sorely disappointed.

Bottom has not been struck yet and the bill provides but basic relief for some.

This will not be as disastrous as the 30s but it will be the deepest recession since. A house of cards has fallen, and it will take at least several years to rebuild confidence and our economy. Many businesses will not survive.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 5:48 PM

There is also something else in there a bit hazy. Seems bankruptcy judges can force mortgage companies to reduce the amount owed(home values have been inflated for a long time, I know. Seems like a whole bunch of changes without folks being clear of what they mean. I am somehow supposed to believe that I am selfish if I don't agree to this mess-sorry not buying that any more- I actually am eager to get the chance to listen to Robert Gibbs even though I know he tries to get the right 'spin' on questions at least he doesn't use one question to tee off on a 10 minute campaign speech Linda

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 5:55 PM

Gibbs is a slippin and a slidin, Linda, and it's only the beginning.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 6:03 PM

LOL I know, Andy, but at least the press can interrupt him urge him to get to the point of the question they asked him. I am starting to feel as sorry for him as that poor little gray man, Roland Burris who was just doing things the way others do them but got tripped up- Linda

sandracam
Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 6:05 PM

I never thought this mess could be fixed quickly. Just don't see the point in doing nothing.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 6:10 PM

I don't either.

At the same these do not seem to be well considered solutions.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 6:17 PM

Currently it is a fact that he won as did the Democrats who now control DC so no use saying that a different plan would have worked better. Think responsible people-if there is such an entity in the political world-will try and see how and when the money is spent and who it helps and who it hurts- and openly say so. Know I am watching even people like Nancy and Harry who turn my stomach - Linda

sandracam
Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 6:18 PM

Yes, it's very scary. No one seems to have a solution though.

smaug
Smaug  (Level: 141.2 - Posts: 2772)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 7:00 PM

Unfortunately, no human being has ever completed the plodding The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith, but I am reading a FABULOUS book by the hysterical and brilliant P.J. O'Rourke called "On The Wealth of Nations" which is a very funny, but serious, dissection of it.

I HIGHLY recommend any one who wants a balanced view of what is going on to sit and read it, it is a very easy, enjoyable and educational read.

Bottomline, you can't tax your way into prosperity. You can tax your way into the mid to late 1930s, and hope for a World War.

On the more pedestrian side, here is an email going around;
================================================


Shortly after class, an economics student approaches his economics professor and says, "I don't understand this stimulus bill. Can you explain it to me?"

The professor replied, "I don't have any time to explain it at my office, but if you come over to my house on Saturday and help me with my weekend project, I'll be glad to explain it to you." The student agreed.

At the agreed-upon time, the student showed up at the professor's house. The professor stated that the weekend project involved his backyard pool. They both went out back to the pool, and the professor handed the student a bucket. Demonstrating with his bucket, the professor said, "First, go over to the deep end, and fill your bucket with as much water as you can." The student did as he was instructed.

The professor then continued, "Follow me over to the shallow end, and then dump all the water from your bucket into it." The student was naturally confused, but did as he was told.

The professor then explained they were going to do this many more times, and began walking back to the deep end of the pool. The confused student asked, "Excuse me, but why are we doing this?"

The professor matter-of-factly stated that he was trying to make the shallow end much deeper. The student didn't think the economics professor was serious, but figured that he would find out the real story soon enough. However, after the 6th trip between the shallow end and the deep end, the student began to become worried that his economics professor had gone mad. The student finally replied, "All we're doing is wasting valuable time and effort on unproductive pursuits. Even worse, when this process is all over, everything will be at the same level it was before, so all you'll really have accomplished is the destruction of what could have been truly productive action!"

The professor put down his bucket and replied with a smile, "Congratulations. You now understand the stimulus bill."




sandracam
Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 7:24 PM

A truly productive action. Please explain.

sandracam
Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 8:55 PM

Obama should just parachute into the NYSE and declare "Mission Accomplished"

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sat, 21st Feb '09 9:07 PM

lololol!

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Mon, 23rd Feb '09 7:40 AM

This gets more interesting by the day. It seems that only 5 states are glutted with foreclosures- Michigan., California, Nevada, Florida, forgotten the fifth. It all has to do with sub prime mortgages-don't understand that-but do understand if I liked in say NY or Illinois might be pretty angry about my tax dollars being spent basically on those states. Will always call Michigan 'home" and now live in Fl. but still pisses me off-Linda

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 23rd Feb '09 7:47 AM

If it's basically five states, that changes the picture significantly IMO because that means that the real estate markets in the other 45 states will not benefit from a national effort to stem foreclosures.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Mon, 23rd Feb '09 8:04 AM

Not sure I understand you correctly, Andy, but if you are saying it doesn't make any sense to bail out in essence five states in mortgages , then I agree with you. If you are saying that those 5 states are too big to fail-heard an awful lot of that lately-then I don't - Linda

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Mon, 23rd Feb '09 8:33 AM

Arizona is the fifth. Everyone agrees that poor Michigan was in terrible shape before this foreclosure thing ever hit. Also seems like the folks who over borrowed on their homes and took money using the house as collateral and it essence made the mortgage larger than the current market value, if after their mortgage is reworked will get $1000.00 bonus for making mortgage payment on time. It is also a fact that before this when banks reworked many mortgages because it didn't profit them to foreclose-for those who think they did it out of kindness-these people defaulted again over 50% of the time-Linda

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 23rd Feb '09 1:47 PM

Linda, please do not misquote me.

I posted that such changes the picture significantly.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Mon, 23rd Feb '09 1:58 PM

Andy, I was not attempting to misquote you. Sometimes I have difficulty figuring out what you said and what it meant. I gave my 2 possible interpretations of what you said so don't think I misquoted anything. I try not to quote anyone directly on anything as that takes the ability to cut and paste which I lack. The fact that the meaning of what you say is not always clear to me is my fault not yours. Linda

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 23rd Feb '09 3:30 PM

Linda, you misquoted me.

Again.

I did not go beyond the idea that this new information required a reassessment of the situation.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Mon, 23rd Feb '09 3:37 PM

Okay, guess we are back to me waiting for you to make your point......... I also know that unless I say something is a direct quote I don't misquote anything or anyone. Seems that I like the President's critics take what you say "out of context". Next time after you have made your point please let me know so I willknow if it okay to comment-thank you sooooo much - Linda

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 23rd Feb '09 3:52 PM

Linda, if you will go to the head of this topic, you will note that I started it and posed a question.

I'm looking for your ideas. Fundamentally I probably agree with the lead statement, but that does not matter. The govt is going to spend a lot of money to restart our economy. So I am asking if this plan is a good one to help with that. Your revelation that most of the foreclosures are in five states only is quite pertinent.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Mon, 23rd Feb '09 3:57 PM

Thank you. Really do not want to be rude to you Andy but in Chat one does not have the option of unveiling something say it or ask it and then people decide if to them it makes sense or is BS. Linda

smaug
Smaug  (Level: 141.2 - Posts: 2772)
Mon, 23rd Feb '09 4:01 PM

Collioure Mon, 23rd Feb '09 3:30 PM:

"""Lindda, yuou missquotted me."""

Idiot can't even spell.....

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Mon, 23rd Feb '09 4:41 PM

What I am attempting to tell you, Andy, is that there is no forum director here. If you believe someone is off topic-skip it and go on. You really must ask a direct question or get your view out there in a hurry. That does not mean you cannot change your mind but it is impossible for you to lead me or anyone else here to reach the conclusion you want to reach. Otherwise you can post a link or something you thought amusing or of interest. People here also care if anyone is ill or has had a loss of a family member or a beloved pet. You simply cannot attempt to be some kind of forum director without getting negative reaction-Linda

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 23rd Feb '09 5:33 PM

Linda,

1 You misquoted me.

2 I really don't have a view yet. We all come from different places with different styles.

3 Sploofusers regularly put up material here for comment.

Smaug, do you have a stuttering problem?

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Mon, 23rd Feb '09 5:57 PM

Andy, you started the thread but once you start it it is no longer yours. Neither can you DIRECT how it goes. You can choose to skip or comment on anyone's comments as you choose. As long as a person does not use language prohibited on the site they can say what they want. Repeat-you cannot control the discussion once you put a topic up for discussion and sometimes your feelings might get hurt if you try-happened to me more than once-doesn't always go in what you believe is logical progression-Linda

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 23rd Feb '09 6:25 PM

Linda, the only thing that perturbs me is that you misquoted me. Again. Please make an effort to quote me correctly - and in context - from now on. Thank you.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Mon, 23rd Feb '09 6:46 PM

Which, btw, Linda, best I noticed, your latest "s" bomb did not get cut by any editors.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Mon, 23rd Feb '09 7:59 PM

. I did NOT misquote you, Andy as my only problem was trying to figure out your opinion or the point you were attempting to make. Since I am SURE you can cut and paste please do that where I took your exact words and misstated them which is the definition of misquoting- really about done trying to tell you something in a nice way. There is NO forum director on Sploofus-whether you believe yourself more intelligent then everyone else or not- Linda And before you say once again that I misquoted you let me reply to you as I now do Penn when I tire of the issue- WHATEVER... Linda

knerd
Knerd  (Level: 99.0 - Posts: 1141)
Mon, 23rd Feb '09 8:03 PM

Jeez Andy, why don't you pull your drawers out of your crack?

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 24th Feb '09 3:34 AM

Buzz off, Knerd.

It's a bad habit of Linda's.

Misquoting others.

knerd
Knerd  (Level: 99.0 - Posts: 1141)
Tue, 24th Feb '09 5:41 AM

And yours is being rude and condescending.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 24th Feb '09 5:42 AM

Neither, Knerd

Just factual.

smaug
Smaug  (Level: 141.2 - Posts: 2772)
Tue, 24th Feb '09 1:21 PM


suddenly the entire "trivia" concept theme is unveiled before my eyes...


I miss Lodi.

lucimoore
Lucimoore  (Level: 183.6 - Posts: 1684)
Tue, 24th Feb '09 4:54 PM

Shut up Andy. You ARE being rude. There are many of us on this site who have tangled with Linda and many who do not agree with her but we finally agree to disagree without being hateful. Your constant "battering" is becoming pure meaness and I think you know precisely what you're doing. There are many members here and everyone has an opinion but it seems that everytime someone disagrees with you it results with you insulting and belittling them. Please stop.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 24th Feb '09 4:58 PM

Excuse me, but there was nothing hateful or rude in my posts.

It was essentially a conversation between Linda and myself, and for my part the principal subject was being misquoted.

If you want to look for rudeness, you might start with the two who interposed themselves.

smaug
Smaug  (Level: 141.2 - Posts: 2772)
Tue, 24th Feb '09 7:20 PM

""""If you want to look for rudeness, you might start with the two who interposed themselves.""""


My dogs did that and I had to get a hose.

diva305
Diva305  (Level: 146.7 - Posts: 1651)
Tue, 24th Feb '09 7:39 PM

I miss Lodi too

Carry on comrades......

sandracam
Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Tue, 24th Feb '09 7:47 PM

Lodi's posts (and Smaugs, I hate to admit) were what made me like this site. Maybe we could all donate some money (not sploofus pts) and bribe her to come back. We need you!!!!

diva305
Diva305  (Level: 146.7 - Posts: 1651)
Tue, 24th Feb '09 8:12 PM

That would be nice Sandracam, but ain't gonna happen.
She was the life of this place, such an eloquent writer.
Our loss.....her gain. Rudeness just wasn't in her heart; she took enough and left. Posts were deleted and even the ones I copied and pasted to show the offenders
their culpability were denied and thereafter deleted.

Shalom,
Palma


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