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Smaug  (Level: 144.7 - Posts: 2765)
Tue, 31st Mar '09 3:17 PM


udge is with the Trivia Showdowns? I just beat a guy who has 8.2 billion points. I thought I got ten percent of that? I was only credited 214,748,364.

In fact, since Xmas every one of my showdowns. win or lose, has been that 214, 748, 364 exact number. That is ten percent of nothing involved, since I have 8.2 billion.

What gives, yo? Is there some cap or something? I'm 10-3 since Xmas, I should be getting like 820m points per win here, no?

Here is what the rules say:
If you (the challenger) wins, you are credited 10% of the challengee�s total Sploofus Points; the challengee however does not lose those points. Only the challenger assumes risk with this system. If you (the challenger) loses, the challengee claims 10% of your total Sploofus Points.

No cap mentioned.

I figure I'm owed like a gazillion-billion points here...

Smaug  (Level: 144.7 - Posts: 2765)
Tue, 31st Mar '09 3:21 PM

PS, all against different players.

1mks  (Level: 219.5 - Posts: 5925)
Tue, 31st Mar '09 3:26 PM

Once you get up in the billions.......there is a "cap" on the showdowns........they are all the same. Sorry, you aren't owed anything any more than "Thedon1".....maybe you 2 can start a club. bwahahahahaha Smile, Smaug, at least you still have your teeth.

Smaug  (Level: 144.7 - Posts: 2765)
Tue, 31st Mar '09 3:27 PM

Wot? Why? Where is that written?

Tuzilla  (Level: 144.6 - Posts: 3839)
Tue, 31st Mar '09 3:30 PM

It has been widely mentioned over time, but perhaps not in the last year. It is actually written into the program, which is limited by math stuff only kaufman understands.

Smaug  (Level: 144.7 - Posts: 2765)
Tue, 31st Mar '09 3:43 PM

Ok, this totally sux. I don't play the other games much, I'm really here for the TQOTD and the showdowns.

Are the TQOTD's capped too?

This cap problem makes the leaders virtually uncatchable for like a decade.

Bushyfox  (Level: 174.4 - Posts: 2403)
Tue, 31st Mar '09 4:45 PM

You can only hope that one of those folks in the stratospheric regions of the Leaderboard goofs up on a few TQOTD wagers or Showdowns and comes tumbling down to Pleb. level..



Garrybl  (Level: 291.5 - Posts: 6770)
Tue, 31st Mar '09 4:47 PM

Re wagers. They were capped at 1 billion not 25% of total points back in late 2007 as I recall.
Justin polled the top 50/100 members on this issue. I did not have an opinion at the time (and still dont). I'm not sure whether it makes it easier or harder to catch the top guys...given that sleekstak3 has moved into top 15 from nowhere I guess it can be done. All you need to do is use wagers efficiently and not waste them in your early days. By coincidence I too only became a gold member after playing a year; I think that helped me.

Separate note on showdowns to follow.


Garrybl  (Level: 291.5 - Posts: 6770)
Tue, 31st Mar '09 4:49 PM

Showdown cap

Based on some power of 2.
Is it 2 to the power 20, -1? The max you can lose/win in a showdown is 1/10 of that.

As Ken explained it this is some artificial limit on large numbers used in many computing devices.


Alvandy  (Level: 240.3 - Posts: 7692)
Tue, 31st Mar '09 5:12 PM

If I ever get to the billionaire status, I'm hiring the Thedon1 to ........
I've lost my train of thought.

Okay- I joined in October 2007.

Before then [Sploofus 1.0], and dating back to the beginning of the website- have the rules regarding maximums points earned for winning wagers and showdowns changed dramatically?
I'm impressed that folks can even be at 26 billion points and more [top 50]. It seems that the points were not capped like the present.
A little history please?


Pepperdoc  (Level: 152.5 - Posts: 4285)
Tue, 31st Mar '09 6:01 PM

I think you're on to something, Watson!

Kaufman  (Level: 267.7 - Posts: 3941)
Tue, 31st Mar '09 9:17 PM

Yup. This ought to be an FAQ.

Integers in the Sploofus database are generally stored as 32-bit numbers. One bit serves as the sign, meaning that 31 bits are available for the number's magnitude, hence the range 0 to (2^31 - 1). The latter such number is roughly 2.14 billion. Thus, the 10% of that for Showdown award is capped at a tenth of that, or 214+ million. Unfortunate when you win? Absolutely, but if you lose a Showdown, that will be a silver lining.

Sploofus Editor
Sploofizz (Editor)  
Tue, 31st Mar '09 9:28 PM

The Editors are currently developing a FAQ and it would be helpful to know if there are other things you would like to see explained.

Any suggestions?

Lodi  (Level: 106.0 - Posts: 2144)
Tue, 31st Mar '09 9:41 PM

Why some players are such dorks?

Mrbojangles  (Level: 16.6 - Posts: 231)
Tue, 31st Mar '09 9:46 PM

Why some players are such #$%$#$*$ dorks?

Larrybus  (Level: 317.9 - Posts: 383)
Tue, 31st Mar '09 11:37 PM

Why some non-paying players are such whining #$%$#$*$ dorks?

Larrybus  (Level: 317.9 - Posts: 383)
Tue, 31st Mar '09 11:40 PM

Getting get back to the original subject of the tread, wagers were originally limited to 2,147,483,647 points, which affected only a handful of players in late 2006-early 2007. Showdowns were and still are limited to 10% of this, or 214,748,364 points.

The limit on wagers was reduced to 1,000,000,000 points sometime in early 2007, some time before Justin's poll that proposed making that billion point limit retroactive to previous wagers. That poll was sent out by email on April 7, 2007 and the new limit was not made retroactive.

There is a thread somewhere in late 2006-early 2007 that discusses this, but I can't find it. Here is my post to it if anyone still wants a technical explanation for these limits. BTW, this is conjecture. Only Justin knows how and why the limits were imposed:

As Kaufman has explained in another thread, the limit of 2,147,483,647 points for wagers is also the limit for 32-bit fixed-point (integer) arithmetic in digital computers. Specifically, it is equal to one less than 2 raised to the 31st power with one bit reserved for the sign, or +/-2,147,483,647. However, showdowns are also limited, but to a more obviously arbitrary 214,748,364 points, 10 percent of the wager limit. Dividing by 10 is not a neat calculation in binary.

My guess is that both limits are arbitrary. For starters, Kravfighter has had over 25,000,000,000 points, 10 times the 32-bit limit, so the database limit is obviously larger than that. For addition and subtraction there seems to be no limit yet.

Also, if you have more than 8.59 billion points when you choose to do a wager, the setup page calculates the maximum wager as 25% of your total points and lets you insert that value in the box on the page. Only after you win or lose do you find out that the wager value was actually limited to 2,147,483,647.

Likewise, if you have more than 2.147 billion points when challenging someone to a showdown, the values shown for winning and losing are calculated as 10% of the challenger's and challengee's total points. Again, only after the showdown is complete do you discover that you have won or lost no more than 214,748,364 points. BTW, the challengee in that showdown is informed correctly that winning would be worth 214M points.

Most Intel and AMD processors made since late 2002 for PCs and servers are capable of 64-bit arithmetic and that seems to be exactly why the showdown and wager pages continue to calculate the 10% and 25% values as if there were no limits. With 64 bits, one can work with integers as large as 2**63 - 1 or 9.223X10**18 or 9.223 quintillion. I'm not absolutely sure of my calculations here, but it's a BIG number, about 9,223,372,036,854,775,807.

So 2,147,483,647 for wagers and 214,748,364 for showdowns are not limits imposed by arithmetic in the system. It's not the limit in the database or no one would have more than 2 billion points.

My guess is that both the wager and showdown limits have been arbitrarily imposed by Sploofus, probably to keep the databases and displays manageable.

Smaug  (Level: 144.7 - Posts: 2765)
Wed, 1st Apr '09 12:00 AM

32 bit integers? WTF are you propeller heads talking about?

Are you saying that the Sploofus code can't figure out ten percent of 8 billion? What is it, hosted on an Atari?

The guy with 25 billion ought to be losing 2.5 billion when he loses a wager, ten percent, not one percent, 214 mil cap. Even my wife's lawyer can figure that out.

Crazy4games  (Level: 124.7 - Posts: 1019)
Wed, 1st Apr '09 12:20 AM

Bwaahaaa Smaug! pmsl.

Kaufman  (Level: 267.7 - Posts: 3941)
Wed, 1st Apr '09 5:51 AM

What Larry said, with one addition:

When people first broke the 2^32 point barrier a few years back, while their numbers were being stored accurately, the all-time leaderboard capped their numbers to viewers at 2^32 - 1. After some complaints, Justin fixed that particular feature.

So I think Larry is right -- these limits COULD be worked around -- but it would require specific handling of the relevant software components.

Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 1st Apr '09 7:02 AM

Looks like you're on your way to that billion in record time, too, Al! I had you on my radar, on the same page a few days ago, and then you took off like a rocket! How the heck did you rack up more than 30 spots and like 220 millions in one day, starting at 300M? That was MOST impressive and I'd love to know how to do that. Care to share?

Barnierubble  (Level: 93.9 - Posts: 637)
Wed, 1st Apr '09 8:29 AM

As I seem never to get over 100,000,000 points, who gives a monkey's. Not many on the island, thats for sure. Thanks for bothering to get all the data about limits, but as it does not apply to the vast majority, as I say, who gives a Fudge or whatever.

Smaug  (Level: 144.7 - Posts: 2765)
Wed, 1st Apr '09 8:59 AM

On the leaderboards, where there is an up or down arrow and a number, what time period is that for? Like, you moved up four spots in the last day, week, or what?

Revdodd  (Level: 68.7 - Posts: 775)
Wed, 1st Apr '09 9:00 AM

I just figured it was a plot by the man to keep us down....

Alvandy  (Level: 240.3 - Posts: 7692)
Wed, 1st Apr '09 9:39 AM

An observation for Smaug [and others who are interested].

Two well know slogans from the world of entertainment.

"Use the Force"
"The Truth Is Out There".

Crazy4games  (Level: 124.7 - Posts: 1019)
Wed, 1st Apr '09 10:10 AM

In response to Smaug's question "What time period is that for?"

If you scroll down to the bottom of the page, you have an option to change the time period to 3, 7, 14 or 28 days.
I hope this helps.

Smaug  (Level: 144.7 - Posts: 2765)
Wed, 1st Apr '09 10:31 AM

Crazy, that was helpful.

So....there is no logistical 32 integer whatever technical problem with TQOTD wager tokens? I just had one for 2 billion.

Anyway, this has me crabby. You can win or lose 2 billion on a simple TQOTD with 30 seconds to answer, and you are capped at 214 m on Showdowns against a live opponent where there is a speed element?

The only thing I could understand here is the issue of someone not responding to a probably shouldn't win the full amount there.

Fudypatootie  (Level: 205.8 - Posts: 1302)
Wed, 1st Apr '09 11:35 AM

"Anyway, this has me crabby."

You should probably see a doctor about that.

Davidf  (Level: 102.1 - Posts: 746)
Wed, 1st Apr '09 12:01 PM

Yes sploofizz I have often wondered why Ceylon became Sri Lanka and why Rhodesia is now Zimbabwe

Collioure  (Level: 113.7 - Posts: 9952)
Wed, 1st Apr '09 12:49 PM

Attn: David

Please look under Myanmar, formerly Burma

and Zimbawe, formerly Southern Rhodesia.

also Zambia, formerly Northern Rhodesia

Ghana, formerly Gold Coast

Belize, formerly British Honduras

and many more.


Kaufman  (Level: 267.7 - Posts: 3941)
Wed, 1st Apr '09 6:15 PM

Don't forget St. Petersburg, formerly St. Petersburg.

1mks  (Level: 219.5 - Posts: 5925)
Wed, 1st Apr '09 9:53 PM


Smaug  (Level: 144.7 - Posts: 2765)
Thu, 2nd Apr '09 9:24 AM

Hey, any other editor comment here? Justin?

Collioure  (Level: 113.7 - Posts: 9952)
Thu, 2nd Apr '09 10:07 AM

Your possibly justified crabbiness aside, Smaug, I think you have raised a valid point or two.

Smaug  (Level: 144.7 - Posts: 2765)
Thu, 2nd Apr '09 10:25 AM

Gee. Thanks.

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