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barnierubble
Barnierubble  (Level: 93.9 - Posts: 637)
Mon, 4th May '09 11:19 AM

WHY I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT A LOVING, CAREING GOD EXISTS. ATHEISTS AND AGNOSTICS ONLY PLEASE.

I have travelled all over the world in my time, and have seen what real poverty is all about, not mine,personally, but other peoples. The cruel death of just one onnocent child should be enough, but thousands die every year, mostly because of the poverty which is generated by religeon. OK it is all done in the sight of God, so how can this loving myth possibly exist

monkeynips13
Monkeynips13  (Level: 21.5 - Posts: 647)
Mon, 4th May '09 12:02 PM

Let me just preface this post by stating that I respect everyone's belief system equally. Spirituality is such a personal thing that it can't be pigeonholed, one concept of god or religion can't be force fed to the masses. Some people find solace in a Christian God, some in Buddha, some in nature, some in science, some in art.

That being said, I was raised a devout agnostic. While my parents are both very spiritual individuals, they were opposed the rigidity of some organized religion. Over the years many have questioned my belief system, or lack there of. While I am open to the possibility of their being a higher power I would not define it as God per se. What would I define it as? That is a lifelong journey I have yet to complete. It at times has frustrated me that others have attacked me for my view on God, as I have never challenged anyone else's belief system. Nor have I ever attempted to make converts of those with a strong faith in God, though many have tried to "save" me. Once again, spirituality is highly personal, and by whatever means you find that strenght to get through the day, kudos to you.

Many have also warned me that I am going to hell because of my lack of faith. As for my take on that, I quote the character of Mrs. Scheisskopf from Joseph Heller's Catch 22. "...the God I don't believe in is a good God, a just God, a merciful God. He's not the meand and stupid God you make him out to be." Simply put, if there is a God, I believe he would judge us on our acts as individuals, how we lived our life and we treated others, not on what faith we chose to follow.

monkeynips13
Monkeynips13  (Level: 21.5 - Posts: 647)
Mon, 4th May '09 12:07 PM

Oops. My apologies for all of the typos in my previous post. I haven't finished my first cup o' coffee yet.

mrbojangles
Mrbojangles  (Level: 16.6 - Posts: 231)
Mon, 4th May '09 3:36 PM

Three questions

If there is a god where did he come from?
What's outside of our universe?
Why is there so much dissension over teleprompters and Royalty farts?

oldcougar
Oldcougar  (Level: 220.4 - Posts: 1935)
Mon, 4th May '09 6:11 PM

While I do believe in God, I don't believe in organized religion. Like Alison/Monkeynips, I think its more about how you live your life than what service you attend. I sometimes wonder if the Earth & sky aren't all located in a snow globe & it gets picked up & shook like crazy, at His whim.

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Tue, 5th May '09 2:31 AM

I did respond but it was deleted. I'll keep it simple this time. I do not believe in a supernatural god for the same reason i don't believe in the tooth fairy.

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.8 - Posts: 1745)
Wed, 6th May '09 10:30 AM

I believe in a higher power not necessarily the judeo christian model. I believe in spirituality. I believe how you treat your fellow man is what will eventually matter. I don't however believe in religion, and killing for the sake of God.

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Tue, 16th Jun '09 6:58 AM

"I have travelled all over the world in my time, and have seen what real poverty is all about, not mine,personally, but other peoples. The cruel death of just one onnocent child should be enough, but thousands die every year, mostly because of the poverty which is generated by religeon. OK it is all done in the sight of God, so how can this loving myth possibly exist"


I go back and forth between Christianity and agnosticism all the time, with more time spent as an agnostic. So I'll answer, not entirely sure that my comments will be what you are looking for, or that they will be welcome, but an answer all the same. They have whole books about that topic, the first to pop into my mind being The Problem of Pain by C.S. Lewis. Maybe agnostics/athiests do have an answer for you as to "how it's possible", but if you want an answer like that why not just ask someone widely regarded as a professional?? Why ask some athiest/agnostic trivia bums who may or may not have ever taken the time to think about that specific theological problem in any depth? If you want quality answers, I wouldn't look here, and more importantly, if you wanted quality answers I would open this forum up to anyone who appears interested in the question.

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.8 - Posts: 2144)
Tue, 16th Jun '09 9:13 AM

I do not believe, but I wholeheartedly respect other people's beliefs, so long as they do not feel the need to shove it down my throat. I believe in spirituality, but I believe that its all personal and once you start judging others, condemning them, and are determined to make everyone around you conform to your beliefs, you have lost what its all supposed to be about.

I have a sister who is deeply religious. I am not. I am so grateful that she loves me for who I am and doesn't expect me to, in any way, change the way I act or talk to conform to her beliefs. She never makes me feel even the slightest bit uncomfortable. And in the reverse, she talks about church, what they are up to lately, and I listen intently and discuss it. But never once do we judge each other. We are who we are and we both respect that. I have actually found that most of the religious people that I know are the same way, and its only a few that show intolerance and self-righteousness.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Tue, 16th Jun '09 9:21 AM

Jeremy - the reason is because sometimes the questioners don't seriously want answers.

They just want to bash God or anyone.

The reason there is misery is because we Christians have not done our part - or are not allowed to do our part.

There are many countries that will not allow Christians to come in and help the people - to offer food and water in God's name. And there aren't enough non-Christians doing that work to overcome. In fact, there are many countries that do not want others in their country doing anything to help the people.

In MANY instances, the leaders of the country where there is misery take all the wealth in a corrupt, dishonest way, not caring that their people are in misery.

The other reason is that there is a spiritual enemy whose only job is to create misery on this planet, and he does it well.

We humans are God's hands and feet. If others are to be helped, God empowered us to be the ones who help. But we cannot when we are not allowed.

Humans are satan's hands and feet, too. There are humans who choose evil, and when they are in power, they purposefully keep their people in poverty and misery to keep themselves rich and in power.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21605)
Tue, 16th Jun '09 9:43 AM

Barnie, don't quite understand why you started the exact same thread title and all that you started after Justin's survey thing. Were you expecting different views this time? It might have been beneficial if you can gone back and found your previous thread and bumped it up and then people would not have had to repeat themselves. Or perhaps you thought folks would be nicer or more respectful of what others believe or don't believe

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Tue, 16th Jun '09 9:52 AM

Live is what one makes of it. That includes environmental factors and greed. For the life of me, I wonder how can so many human beings benefit from exploiting other people and nations. Does every one have a heart?

sandracam
Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Tue, 16th Jun '09 9:55 AM

My grandfather was an atheist. He was also the kindest, most caring man I've ever known. He treated everyone fairly, and drove my grandmother to church every Sunday.
If there is a heaven and this man isn't there, then I wouldn't go either.
Surely, as Monkeysnips said, we are judged by our actions, not if we belonged to the "right" church due to an accident of birth.

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Tue, 16th Jun '09 10:04 AM

Linda: not entirely sure to what your post refers, but I was digging through older threads out of boredom and replied to this one bumping it up from May of this year. Is that what you mean as in Barnie "repeating" himself??

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.8 - Posts: 2144)
Tue, 16th Jun '09 10:09 AM

There were a lot of really fun threads we had going back in the day, Jerm. If you're going to spend your time digging threads up, why don't you find ones that will make people smile? Or start ones that will make people smile?

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Tue, 16th Jun '09 10:18 AM

I just bump the ones I have an interest in responding to. I'm not a very good predictor for some reason as to which threads people are going to enjoy. I've tried, I bump them, no one responds, then they disappear. So, I figure I better just stick with the threads that interest me and leave the rest to others who have a better idea as to what will do well.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21605)
Tue, 16th Jun '09 10:20 AM

I was wrong and I am sorry and apologize to Barnie-Linda

barnierubble
Barnierubble  (Level: 93.9 - Posts: 637)
Tue, 16th Jun '09 12:02 PM

Thank you Linda, no offence had been taken. Bill


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