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bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Wed, 13th May '09 4:19 AM

SUDDENLY, "THE SILENT ONE" EMERGED FROM AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION AND CAN'T STOP TALKING.

Dick Cheney is on a torture tour and just won't stop defending his torture stance (Enhanced Interrogation Techniques) water boarding, insects, etc.
Is the loquacious one concerned about the security of America? Or is he only looking for the right jury pool to enhance his 21% approval rating?
BTW:Operationally, the the Armed forces hasn't changed anything.

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Wed, 13th May '09 4:47 AM

How on Earth does that slime ball get a 21% rating ? Where do they find these people ? Dick, what an appropriate name that is, should be sharing a cell with a couple of big angry muslims.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Wed, 13th May '09 5:00 AM

Well, of course, we should be more concerned about terrorism from veterans returning from overseas duty than from angry Islamists hell bent on repeating 9-11, subway bombings and the like.

Just ask Janet Napolitano.

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Thu, 14th May '09 1:42 AM

"we should be more concerned about terrorism from veterans returning from overseas duty"...Of course not. They've already committed their terrorist acts abroad.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Fri, 15th May '09 9:46 PM

I love Dick Cheney. I would have loved to have him for president. He actually IS brilliant, well spoken, gives a magnificent speech off the cuff, has his facts and figures memorized to speak extemporaneously about them. I wish he had had more power during the Bush presidency.

And he is warm and friendly (except when he accidentally shoots you), and he is kind and loving to his wife and his daughter and her partner.

I think if people knew the truth about him really, instead of lies a hostile and extremely rabidly partisan media created about him, people would really like him a lot.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Fri, 15th May '09 9:49 PM

Folks probably won't like this but looks like the Obama is taking Cheney's words to heart and is going back to what needs to be done to keep us safe-dunno-maybe just looks that way-either way I am delighted on that front-Linda

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Fri, 15th May '09 10:05 PM

Me too.

Candidates don't have the top secret information that presidents have. It's only proper and fitting that decisions are made on the truth and revealed facts a president learns when he gets into officer, when it runs contrary to what was mistakenly thought during a campaign. Things look different from the outside looking in. It is actually a tribute to Obama that he is now making decisions based on the top secret facts available to him on the inside.

President Obama now knows for absolute fact how President Bush has been falsely accused and mocked and ridiculed for years where it was cruel and wrong. He of all knows how brilliantly President Bush kept us safe after 9/11.

tsk9653
Tsk9653  (Level: 113.2 - Posts: 1466)
Fri, 15th May '09 10:26 PM

Jank: I know you are a person of faith, and this apparently is true in other than matters of religion since there is no evidence to support the claim that Obama has suddenly concluded that Bush's policies were "brilliant' and kept us safe. There were more victims of terrorism in the United States during the Bush presidency than during any other presidency, so the "he kept us safe" mantra is hardly compelling. Moreover, although Obama has gone back on policy promises with respect to the Bush terrorism policies, he certainly has not embraced the most extreme aspects of those policies. Those on the left who voted for Obama believing his rhetoric were fooled again. I never believed Obama to be anything other than the cautious establishment centerist he has proven to be so I did not vote for him -- although I am glad he was elected given the alternative of McCain. I am disappointed by many of the Obama flipflops now that he is in power, but I would have been surprised had it been otherwise.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Fri, 15th May '09 10:45 PM

"he certainly has not embraced the most extreme aspects of those policies."

I'm really good with that.

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 117.7 - Posts: 1745)
Sat, 16th May '09 4:24 PM

Maybe a centrist is what we needed at this time. He had to appeal to broad voter base in order to be elected. Given the current political environment and campaign promises I think he is doing a fairly good job. Of course by the very nature of politics he is going to flip flop on some issues once he is president. Like you said he is much improved over past administration and as I am opposed to almost everything that party stands for I voted for Obama. It is a shame we don't have a 3 or 4 party system with more choices. But given the selection I think our country made the right decision. As far as the pictures being revealed I'm not sure if that will do the country any good. I would however like the freedom of the information and some people won't believe it without the pictures. Imagine everythiing we will never know. That my friends is scary. More so than the current administration could ever come up with. I was also appalled on one of the threads to hear praises for Dick Cheney who will no doubt go down in history as one of the worse Vice Presidents ever. Look it up if you don't believe me.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sat, 16th May '09 6:01 PM

Bobo - please list what Dick Cheney did that makes you think he is the worst VP in history.

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 117.7 - Posts: 1745)
Sat, 16th May '09 6:39 PM

Basically he did nothing, except further his own interests.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sun, 17th May '09 12:07 AM


Tsk9653
If our President is more centrist, I think it 's always better to be be middle than the extreme. In some cases I think Obama is too over-reaching because he wants to show bipartisanship. That's fine in these times with the mess this country is in. We need to pull together. On the hand, we do need checks and balances; therefore, the President should welcome meaningful debate from the partisans; despite the conservative base's declining numbers. Thus far, I'm aligned with our President . He is not a miracle worker and needs our support. He gets flack from tea-baggers and separatists. I admire his courage to have inherited this debauchery.Yet, steadfastly he has the willingness to take steps to fix this debacle whether yea or nay.

He gets threats from the gun totters, threats about succession from the union, and his life was even threatened during the campaign. His compassion to identify with the needs of this country is astounding. Yet, our President works very diligently at it. What did Bush do?

koota
Koota  (Level: 181.7 - Posts: 2100)
Sun, 17th May '09 12:09 AM

Interesting. We were just discussing "Silent, But Deadly" in another thread ...

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 17th May '09 3:52 AM

Obama is not governing from the center. At every opportunity he tries to satisfy his extreme left wing, and only when it backfires does he retreat.

Next up - his gargantuan budget. Nothing moderate or centrist about it.

And tell me about the "new politics," pulleeeeeeeeeze.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Sun, 17th May '09 5:06 AM

Centrist? Some would cal what he has done in the past week ' WAFFLING" but he waffled in the right direction on these security issues

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 17th May '09 7:56 AM

That often happens when idealism meets up with reality.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sun, 17th May '09 8:07 AM

And idealism meets previously top-secret knowledge.

I wonder how the world would react if we all knew all the countries' and individuals' secrets.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Sun, 17th May '09 8:14 AM

II am waiting with bated breath for folks to bash Cheney while noting the laudable aspects of his replacement- the fact that he is first in line as the replacement for Obama and is the king of gaff fis scary but even scarier is Pelosi being third as believe she has been for a bit-think about it...

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Tue, 19th May '09 3:00 AM

I can see that it would be preferable (for some) to divert the attention away from Cheney, by blaming todays ills on Obama. What we are suffering today started under a Repug misadministration, let's not forget that. This thread is about a torturer defending his tactics. Now tell me again, what excuse did the US give (eventually) for waging it's illegal war on Iraq ? When the lies about WMD and nuclear weapons were prooved to be flase that is. Oh yeah, to overthrow a torturer and dictator, hypocrites.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 19th May '09 3:45 AM

Well, Dave, Obama is working hard on claiming the recession as his own. Reality check on that front not far away.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Tue, 19th May '09 6:47 AM

I'm pretty sure (checking with my sources) that the United States, and particularly VP Cheney, did not have shredding machines, did not shred human beings, does not have mass gravesites with a hundred thousand bodies dumped in them.

Oh - and the name of this thread - no longer applies.

Thanks to your VP pick, you know, the guy who is SUCH a better choice than VP Cheney, has now disclosed the undisclosed bunker.

He's such a non-thinking, big mouth, he doesn't even realize that by doing so, he endangered his own life and that of his family, not to mention all the families who live anywhere near him.

Plus, wonder how many tax dollars now have to immediately be used to build a new undisclosed bunker to protect the 2nd in line for the presidency (God help us all)?

Cheney is a great man. And your hate for all things conservative blinds you to the truth of who really is the the dunce. Or - you're just in denial and refuse to face the truth. There is no way to defend VP Biden. Dan Quayle misspoke several times and the left crucified him. But he never gave away national secrets - to the press - with a laugh and a joke.

It's so important to pray for our leaders. They are sometimes their own worse enemy - and I fear ours too. Every day they're making decisions that affect us and our future generations.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Tue, 19th May '09 7:26 AM

It doesn't matter what Cheney did or did not do or if anyone was tortured or not or if pictures will be released or not or for that matter whatever the subject of this thread might have been. Now everything in DC is centered on What did Nancy Know and when did she know it?-love seeing her squirm. Knew the minute she accused the CIA of lying-whether they did or not- this would be a very long Kodak moment- see how far DC has progressed since Watergate? BTW BRILLIIANT Supreme Court Decision yesterday!

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Tue, 19th May '09 8:53 AM

I take your point, here's another one. No matter what the US does to cover up it's murky crimes, the cat is out of the bag. Never again will the US be able to claim the high moral ground, the world knows. It knows about Abu Ghraib, and it also knows the place was nothing like unique. It knows about Guantanamo, and it knows about extraordinary rendition. It knows that the scum bag and his comrades who raped a fourteen year old girl and then killed her and her family are not unique either. It also knows that without US support the zionists could not keep Palestinians in a virtual concentration camp. Viva Palestina.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Tue, 19th May '09 8:56 AM

Somehow it doesn't matter to me what the "Toads of the World' think of my country after 9/11.....

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Tue, 19th May '09 9:44 AM

I'm sure the British troops that have died in Iraq and Afghanistan as your allies will be thrilled to hear that. I'll make sure to pass it on.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Tue, 19th May '09 10:00 AM

Interested-were you among those troops???

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Tue, 19th May '09 11:46 AM

Of course not. I'm not likely to participate in any war, let alone an illegal one.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Tue, 19th May '09 12:14 PM

Meant nothing personal by that remark, Dave. I was a young person during the Vietnam whatever and thought as most that there was some kind of noble purpose when it began. Watched friends be drafted because they were not rich enough to avoid it and many died. Was among the protesters against it and watched a President shamed -incidentally a Democrat-because of it. I am not a historian so could be wrong on my facts but as I remember things Kennedy a hugely popular president was an actual combatant in a war and the last of o any of our presidents to be such. He was in at the beginning or thereabouts of what turned out to be a most unpopular "war"-that one by our Constitution wasn't legal either. When I refer to the "toads" mean the Iran and Hamas guys or the folks who believe apologizing for my country will make one iota of difference to them in what they do or do not do-Linda

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 19th May '09 1:20 PM

Linda, let's not blame Vietnam on JFK.

It was LBJ who jumped in whole hog.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Tue, 19th May '09 2:39 PM

I did not blame JFK -the shamed President I was referencing was Johnson. The whole thing probably actually began under Eisenhower-things not so open to see back then- but escalated a bit under Kennedy and Johnson finally lost touch on the whole thing . Either way 2 Democrats fought a war that wasn't legal-Linda

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 19th May '09 3:52 PM

You are correct about each President's involvement, Linda.

We had supported the French, ousted in 1954.


caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Tue, 19th May '09 4:01 PM

My point was shame depends on your perspective-Clinton bombed an aspirin factory and Truman wiped out the population of 2 Japaneses cities. The British used to conscript people for their current noble cause- Linda

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 19th May '09 4:09 PM

Not just an aspirin factory,

but also a few empty tents after tipping off the Pakistanis - the total extent on Clinton's Wag the Dog war on terror.




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