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goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 27th May '09 10:57 AM

SUPERVISOR ASKS WOMAN TO TAKE DOWN AMERICAN FLAG


http://cbs11tv.com/local/patriotism.at.office.2.1020415.html

I am not a ra-ra American, but this seems a bit ridiculous to me.



Supervisor Asks Woman To Take Down American Flag

Is it okay to show your patriotism at the office?

For one Arlington woman, the answer was "no" after she hung an American flag in her office just before the Memorial Day weekend.

Debbie McLucas is one of four hospital supervisors at Kindred Hospital in Mansfield. Last week, she hung a three-by-five foot American flag in the office she shares with the other supervisors.

When McLucas came to work Friday, her boss told her another supervisor had found her flag offensive. "I was just totally speechless. I was like, 'You're kidding me,'" McLucas said.

McLucas' husband and sons are former military men. Her daughter is currently serving in Iraq as a combat medic.

Stifling a cry, McLucas said, "I just wonder if all those young men and women over there are really doing this for nothing."

McLucas said the supervisor who complained has been in the United States for 14 years and is formerly from Africa. McLucas said the supervisor took down Debbie's flag herself.

"The flag and the pole had been placed on the floor," McLucas said. But McLucas also said hospital higher ups had told her some patients' families and visitors had also complained.

"I was told it wouldn't matter if it was only one person," she said. "It would have to come down."

McLucas said hospital bosses told her as far as patriotism was concerned, the flag flying outside the hospital building would have to suffice.

Kindred Hospital Corporate Headquarters are located in Kentucky. They have yet to make a final decision on the matter. They have not returned our phone calls for comment.

The Kindred Hospital Corporation was chosen as Fortune's most admired for 2009. McLucas hopes they'll back her patriotism.

"I find it very frightening because if I can't display my flag, what other freedoms will I lose before all is said and done," McLucas asked.



caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Wed, 27th May '09 11:02 AM

With you on this one, Goddess, 100%- Linda

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 27th May '09 11:45 AM

It's possible they would also have asked her to take down any flag, poster or personal display and it just happened to be a US flag. Three by five is pretty big and it was on a free-standing pole in an office shared by several people, could've been in the way. Maybe if she'd had a smaller one? And we don't know what kind of friction there has been among the people who share the office, so I'll save my outrage until I know the rest of the story.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Wed, 27th May '09 11:50 AM

Gesus!! TOTUS needs to take the flag out of his lapel as it "offends" me-matter of fact those transparent screens get in the way and could be a danger of some sort surely hurting his eyes reading so much from a distance of some sort and need to go as well..

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 27th May '09 11:57 AM

Nice try but I no longer have any interest in arguing with you about the pettiness of the teleprompter comments. The mystery's been solved.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Wed, 27th May '09 12:01 PM

The woman was told that the flag display was offensive not that it was in the way-

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 27th May '09 12:06 PM

So what does it have to do with the president?

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Wed, 27th May '09 12:20 PM

Well, he does wear a flag in his lapel-is offensive about size or who displays/ wears it? BTW I do not believe the constant teleprompter is a petty issue. NOTHING he says rings sincere-even the kind words he had for his court pick. If you notice they disappear when someone else speaks-grant you usually looking up and down from notes but that vacant gaze is more than a distraction. Perhaps not sure it might be why N Korean, Iran etc. are not paying a bit of attention to his "warnings"-all props and scripts. You always manage to get in te last word so am sure you will this time. Just hoping that whoever is setting his agenda clues him in that now is not the time to cut missile defense programs-dunno-Linda

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 27th May '09 12:26 PM

Hopelessly off-topic and totally beside the point.




caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Wed, 27th May '09 12:34 PM

LOL

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 27th May '09 12:45 PM

Sheri, I'm much more annoyed by the condos and homeowner associations that have been forbidding and fining people for putting flags and service stars in their windows to honor family members overseas. I can't imagine ANY excuse for that.

madamec8
Madamec8  (Level: 82.6 - Posts: 893)
Wed, 27th May '09 12:49 PM

The statement is pretty clear -- nobody complained it was in the way, one supervisor found it offensive and removed it on her own. A 3x5 flag is not that big, especially on a standing pole. The rest doesn't make a lick of sense -- why in the world would patients and their families object to a flag in the supervisors' office? This smells to high heaven, and it's disgusting that it has to go all the way to headquarters. If we're going to err ... err on the side of the flag, it stands for everything that the former African benefits from by living here. This is the kind of ca-ca that keeps people at each other's throat, including right here on this chat group.

Colleen

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 27th May '09 1:16 PM

Agreed. I just think there's more to the story and I don't tend to get riled up about stuff like this until all the facts are in. We don't know what the relationships are in that office, and there are at least two sides to this story and we only have part of one.



goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 27th May '09 1:20 PM

I agree with you mom, it could have been in the way. It does not say that in the story, but you never know what the rules are in there. Still, for the other supervisor to take it down and lay it on the floor I think made me angrier than the rest of it. I think that was just disrepect and would have lost my job kicking her butt.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.0 - Posts: 9952)
Wed, 27th May '09 1:26 PM

Donna, all the facts could come in and I still wouldn't get riled up. Tend to agree with all your comments above.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 27th May '09 1:26 PM

I didn't read it that way. I thought the flag was on a pole standing on the floor?

It would be beyond ignorant to place anyone's national flag on the floor unless you were trying to insult and offend.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 27th May '09 1:28 PM

"The flag and the pole had been placed on the floor,"

That's the way I read it.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 27th May '09 1:36 PM

Hmmm. Dunno. I just have the suspicion that this is more about the history between these two people than it is about the flag. It says "asked, " so who did the asking, and when? I'd like to hear from someone besides Ms. Lucas before taking a side.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 27th May '09 1:38 PM

McLucas. Sorry.

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.8 - Posts: 2144)
Wed, 27th May '09 1:45 PM

"I think that was just disrepect and would have lost my job kicking her butt."


High-five to Goddess on that comment.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 27th May '09 1:49 PM

"Butt" was not my word of choice, but being a family site and all.

1mks
1mks  (Level: 211.2 - Posts: 5886)
Wed, 27th May '09 1:52 PM

There has been an up-date. They are telling her that she may re-hang her flag.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 27th May '09 2:10 PM

Then, late Wednesday morning, Kindred posted on its website a statement about the incident. It reads, in part: "The disagreement was over the size of the flag and not what it symbolized. We have invited the employee to put the flag back up."


lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.8 - Posts: 2144)
Wed, 27th May '09 2:10 PM

I'm guessing that's going to be one pissy supervisor after all this. Watch your back, Ms. McLucas.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Wed, 27th May '09 2:24 PM

LoL agree, Lodi Just curious: what happened to all the patients, visitors, etc. who found it offensive? dunno.. message on the website sound like someone had to eat "Ca Ca" and won't be a bit happy!!

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 27th May '09 2:32 PM

Glad to hear she can put her flag back up...you go girl!

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 27th May '09 2:34 PM

Gotta love a happy ending. Now if that African supervisor can just be fired we can all go for ice cream.

Flag's back up. Earth: resume rotation.

jeannette
Jeannette  (Level: 111.1 - Posts: 1736)
Wed, 27th May '09 2:36 PM

im glad she got to put the flag back up x

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 27th May '09 2:44 PM

LOL @ Mom. Whew...was a crisis there for a few minutes.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Wed, 27th May '09 2:50 PM

I'm ready for the ice cream!!

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 27th May '09 3:02 PM

Really a shame that four "supervisors" sharing an office don't work well enough together to resolve the "crisis" before it made the blogosphere. Wonder how that happened?



bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.4 - Posts: 1745)
Wed, 27th May '09 4:12 PM

I am happy she was allowed to put the flag back up. Especially for memorial day it just seems fitting to be patriotic and appreciate the sacrifices soldiers have made for our freedom. However, I am so tired of the jumping of one topic to that of President Obama reading from a teleprompter. If you don't like him find another cause that one just doesn't fly anymore even his detractors would agree, come off it!

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Wed, 27th May '09 4:19 PM



caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Wed, 27th May '09 5:53 PM

http://thecollegepolitico.com/biden-makes-fun-of-obama-for-teleprompter-use/ Bobo, looks like someone IMPORTANT notices it too LOL

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 27th May '09 6:23 PM

When did Joe become important?

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Wed, 27th May '09 6:40 PM

LOL that was funny-

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Wed, 27th May '09 7:04 PM

I am a ra-ra American. I think concession should have been paid because it was only for Memorial Day and this person had family at war.

For the rest of the time, I think that flag was too big for an office of 4, even one on a pole.

I just always put one of those small flags sticking out of the coffee cup I have my pens and pencils in, and I feel satisfied to see it, yet I don't think it could bother anybody else in size.

Oh - I hope this is not too off topic. My middle school orchestra has finally advanced enough this year that they WANT to learn and play the Star Spangled Banner for our spring awards concert tomorrow night.

But I heard something today that I had never heard before. We had to stop and fix some wrong note, and I heard one of my boys say to the guy next to him, "This song used to MEAN something!"

Now - our schedule until all concerts are over Friday night is jam-packed, and there's just no time to even address the comment.

If you guys don't mind, would you tell me how you would have handled that - had there been time to handle it?

1. Ignore it anyway
2. Ask him how he feels its meaning has changed - what it used to mean to him, and what it seems to mean differently now
3. Take it as a chance to have the kids journal privately next week about the subject (after instruments have been checked in) and just see how the kids feel
4. Open it up for discussion next week in class

I don't know if it means anything, but just for the sake of your information if it affects your opinion, I have a VERY diverse class (very few caucasian), and it was an African-American boy who made the statement to his Vietnamese stand partner and the Hispanic boy behind him.

BUT - if you feel this is too much of a change of topic (and I only thought it might be ok since the flag issue has already been settled), please feel free to just ignore my question, or comment that you think I shouldn't ask.


cujgie
Cujgie  (Level: 173.7 - Posts: 754)
Wed, 27th May '09 8:24 PM

Open it up for discussion asap.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Wed, 27th May '09 8:27 PM

(Oh- and all 3 guys are best friends if that helps affect your direction of thought)

sargon
Sargon  (Level: 112.0 - Posts: 1256)
Wed, 27th May '09 8:44 PM

Here is a press release from the hospital.

May 27, 2009

Kindred Hospital Mansfield has a great deal of appreciation for the service that many of our employees and their families have given to the country. We honor our veterans and active military through a variety of benefits and service programs. This was an isolated incident between two employees that we are working to resolve amicably. Both employees have family members who have served in the military. The disagreement was over the size of the flag and not what it symbolized. We have invited the employee to put the flag back up. We share their love of country and we appreciate the service of their family members as well as all members of the armed forces.

Rhonda Williams
Kindred Hospital Administrator


madamec8
Madamec8  (Level: 82.6 - Posts: 893)
Thu, 28th May '09 5:39 AM

Janice, I think this is a great teaching/learning opportunity, I see using 2 and 4 together to launch a good discussion but not let it become contentious. Good luck! Keep us posted.

surreyman
Surreyman  (Level: 261.1 - Posts: 2770)
Thu, 28th May '09 5:49 AM

This PC rubbish is infiltrating into the UK too.
Time we remembered that if people are only too eager to immigrate, they should accept all aspects of what they initially wanted so badly.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Thu, 28th May '09 5:53 AM

Does that include the language?-would hope so -in Florida often feel like the foreigner-really rude and scary to be in a medical procedure and have the folks around you talking in a language you don't understand

oldcougar
Oldcougar  (Level: 220.4 - Posts: 1935)
Thu, 28th May '09 5:59 AM

By all means discuss but maybe a private journal would allow the kids to really say how they feel. Ya know how kids hate to be uncool. which is why some teens say some pretty ignorant things they don't mean. Best of luck, to the kids & you, on a successful concert

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Thu, 28th May '09 7:54 AM

My students and their families who are here illegally have no desire whatsoever to BE here. They are loyal Mexicans - they do not say the pledge of allegiance, they have no desire nor need to learn English - they feel no love for America at all. They are here to make money only, and they would much rather be in Mexico. They would never have left Mexico if Mexico gave them any opportunities and there were decent jobs for them there. If Mexico straightened up their act today, these people would be gone tonight, never to return.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Thu, 28th May '09 8:09 AM

Janice, I am glad you are a ra-ra American, thats awesome! I suppose what I should have said is that I don't ooze patriotism, I used to. I love my country and have served in the military. That said, I like the journal idea.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 28th May '09 8:20 AM

Yeah, you were oozing pretty good at boot camp.

You were so beautiful in your whites that day you took my breath away, and it still brings tears to my eyes when I think of it. Like right now.

madamec8
Madamec8  (Level: 82.6 - Posts: 893)
Thu, 28th May '09 10:41 AM

Gosh, Donna, you've got ME puddling up. That was a nice thing to share.

fudypatootie
Fudypatootie  (Level: 197.3 - Posts: 1302)
Thu, 28th May '09 12:00 PM

Janice, I think I would open the topic for discussion and act as moderator, devil's advocate, and calming influence. Once the kids are done discussing, I'd give them an opportunity to write their thoughts now that they've had a chance to hear the sides. I would probably ask them to find one outside source to back their view, if time permits. Last week of school can be a "waste of time" for teachers - if finals are done, all you can do is babysit 'til school's over. This is a topic that will keep the kids' interest, and yours, while allowing you to find a useful way to eat up those last few hours. Good luck and have fun!

salzypat
Salzypat  (Level: 156.5 - Posts: 5316)
Thu, 28th May '09 1:29 PM

here's a link for additional coverage on the flag issue.

http://cbs11tv.com/local/patriotism.at.office.2.1020415.html

By the way, the hospital told the woman that the flag outside the hospital should suffice -- towards the end of the video I hope you catch a glimpse of the flag outside the hospital. It looks no larger than the 3x5 one this woman had up AND I thought it looked pretty frayed and weather-beaten on the edges.

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.4 - Posts: 1745)
Thu, 28th May '09 2:33 PM

Jan I would definitely have a discussion on it. It would be constructive and informative to do so. Even if a little controversial, and I think it would be of benefit to you to know why that student doesn't think it means anything anymore. I still get teary eyed when I hear the star spangled banner. That is what it is all about, I am proud to be an American and your students at their age should be as well.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Thu, 28th May '09 4:02 PM

I get choked up when I hear it too. When it's done right, it's beautiful.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 28th May '09 4:46 PM

But nobody knows like a race fan how it can make you cringe when it's done badly.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Thu, 28th May '09 5:21 PM

Truer words were never spoken. But I love it!

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Thu, 28th May '09 11:58 PM

LOLOLOL - Donna!

Well, the concert was tonight, and sure enough, 2 of my students who are pretty much the caregivers to younger siblings didn't get to come. But then I learned something else tonight - the kids told me that my SEVENTH grader has a hardship drivers license!!!! Good grief! This baby is driving - picking up those younger siblings at school!

I thought my heart would fall out of my mouth. I knew it was bad, but I had no idea. (BTW, this little boy has a horrible scar on his hand. He told me it was from falling into a fire when he was 3 years old. He lives with his quite young grandparents. I cried when he I saw his hand and he told me what happened. I could be wrong, but from his eyes, I'm not sure he fell in a fire.)

The kids certainly played the National Anthem well. I couldn't have been prouder. And I think looking at their faces they felt the same way. And I promise that it never crossed my mind that it was a sneaky way to get a standing ovation! But we played it at the beginning, so it doesn't count. And also for the record, some of the parents did not stand during the anthem. Good grief - the kids even stood to play it!

Ok - way too much blabbering on my part. Thank you so much for not minding my asking your opinion in a thread of a different subject - you've been very helpful. And Goddess, I only said I am a ra-ra because even though I am pretty much as noisy patriotic as they come, I still thought that flag was too large to be in that office more than just on patriotic holidays. I love our flag, though. I think its the most beautiful flag on the earth. And I readily admit being prejudiced about THAT! ha

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Fri, 29th May '09 10:29 PM

Ok, I have an update. Today a lot of kids were out for field trips, so I had just a small group of great kids with me in class. We were just talking about lots of stuff and i can't even remember how the conversation led in, but I had a chance to bring up the comment "the National Anthem used to mean something." I asked if they knew what that was about.

They all knew and were quick to tell me. The National Anthem hasn't meant anything since the Viet Nam war.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm - how did all 21 of my students come up with that idea, that a war that ended almost 40 years ago was the end of the National Anthem meaning anything?

THAT'S the kind of teacher agenda that bothers - even angers me. They all had the same line and it wasn't up for discussion. They had been taught this as FACT. They got it there at school from either one teacher, or a team of teachers who work together on the same unit.

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Fri, 29th May '09 10:37 PM

Sounds like the kind of discussion we were having on the Liberty U thread? Interesting......

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sun, 31st May '09 9:51 PM

Linda, you've just made a huge mistake. You are somebody; and you notice everything our President does every, minute, every hour, every day. How nice of you

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Mon, 1st Jun '09 12:03 AM

Not quite sure what my mistake was noticing the flag in his lapel; or the teleprompter which no one can miss. If it is the flag GW Bush still wears one as well so


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