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naomi4195
Naomi4195  (Level: 51.7 - Posts: 184)
Sun, 31st May '09 3:12 AM

POLITICAL CORRECTNESS

I thought some of you might appreciate this although it may be a bit simplistic:


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sometimes you are encouraged about our country's future when you see something
like this.

Specifically, there is an annual contest at Texas A&M University calling for
the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:

This year's term was: "Political Correctness."

The winner wrote:

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by
the clean end."


R. J. Wiedemann LtCol. USMC Ret

This guy has nailed it.



lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.8 - Posts: 2144)
Sun, 31st May '09 4:01 AM

Holy support ticket! You said turd. Some PC extremist is probably going to lodge a complaint.

barnierubble
Barnierubble  (Level: 93.9 - Posts: 637)
Sun, 31st May '09 4:02 AM

This pretty much hits the nail on the head with all the crap that is thrown about in the name of political correctness. We get it this side of the Atlantic as well.

barnierubble
Barnierubble  (Level: 93.9 - Posts: 637)
Sun, 31st May '09 4:04 AM

By the way, Lodi, what is a turd? LOL

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.8 - Posts: 2144)
Sun, 31st May '09 4:26 AM

You're in Spain? I think you'd call it "el turdo."

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 31st May '09 4:35 AM

That's too kind.

Really.

oldcougar
Oldcougar  (Level: 220.4 - Posts: 1935)
Sun, 31st May '09 4:49 AM



caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Sun, 31st May '09 4:54 AM

Barnie 'turd' is "Crap" in one piece-

barnierubble
Barnierubble  (Level: 93.9 - Posts: 637)
Sun, 31st May '09 6:05 AM

I have two Podenco dogs, is that what they do? LOL

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 31st May '09 6:44 AM

What started as an admirable effort to civilize speech has morphed into a kind of liberal fascism.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sun, 31st May '09 7:43 AM

Labels, labels, labels! That's SO politically incorrect!

Besides, fascists can't be liberals. They're conservative by definition, but you're trying so hard to say something mean about liberals I guess you just forgot.

The negative aspect of political correctness is on both sides of the divide, Andy. A liberal thinks it's politically incorrect to use racial epithets, or to minimize mature women by calling them girls or female dogs (though they can call themselves that and it's okay ), but conservatives think it's politically incorrect to speak inconvenient truths such as any hint that the West's current problems with terrorism are in any way connected to its bloody colonialist past.

There's enough of the dreaded PC to go around with more antagonistic dividing, fingerpointing and blaming.



davidf
Davidf  (Level: 102.1 - Posts: 746)
Sun, 31st May '09 9:14 AM

An Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman walk into a bar, the Englishman orders a beer, the Irishman orders a Guinness and the Scotsman orders a Welsh person to join them so as to avoid any unnecessary prejudice

My own politically correct take on a good old fashioned joke

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 31st May '09 9:14 AM

Donna, there's the admirable effort to civilize speech and then there's the code and indoctrination of beliefs and the suppression of criticism which you will find in fascism.

Donna, just as there's liberal racism, there is also liberal fascism.

That's the way it looks from the center.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sun, 31st May '09 9:19 AM

I'm closer to the center than you are, so pfffpt to you.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sun, 31st May '09 9:20 AM

Oh - not so much, Donna. Please see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Fascism

"In the book, (Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning is a bestselling book by Jonah Goldberg,) Goldberg argues that contrary to conventional wisdom, fascist movements were and are left-wing. He states that both modern liberalism and fascism descended from progressivism, and that prior to World War II, "fascism was widely viewed as a progressive social movement with many liberal and left-wing adherents in Europe and the United States".Goldberg has told interviewers that the title Liberal Fascism comes "directly from a speech that H.G. Wells gave to the Young Liberals at Oxford in 1932." Goldberg claims that Wells had stated that he wanted to "assist in a kind of phoenix rebirth" of liberalism as an "enlightened Nazism."



smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sun, 31st May '09 9:28 AM

A book by a conservative. Imagine my surprise, and how quickly I saw the error of my ways.

Go ahead, try.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sun, 31st May '09 9:31 AM

More c&p from the same article:

Austin W. Bramwell wrote in The American Conservative: "Not only does Goldberg misunderstand liberalism, but he refuses to see it simply as liberalism... Liberal Fascism reads less like an extended argument than as a catalogue of conservative intellectual clichés, often irrelevant to the supposed point of the book."[17]

In The Nation, Eric Alterman wrote that Goldberg's grouping of left-wing politics with fascism is based on weak, tenuous associations: "Some fascists were vegetarians; some liberals are vegetarians; ergo... Some fascists were gay; some liberals are gay... Fascists cared about educating children; Hillary Clinton cares about educating children. Aha! ... This is a book that argues that Woodrow Wilson 'was the twentieth century's first fascist dictator' and that it is 'impossible to deny that the New Deal was objectively fascistic.'"[18]

Blogger and journalist David Neiwert, writing in The American Prospect, called the book "bizarro history" and "classic Newspeak." He wrote: "The title alone is enough to indicate its thoroughgoing incoherence: Of all the things we know about fascism and the traits that comprise it, one of the few things that historians will readily agree upon is its overwhelming anti-liberalism."[19]

David Oshinsky of The New York Times wrote: "Liberal Fascism is less an exposé of left-wing hypocrisy than a chance to exact political revenge. Yet the title of his book aside, what distinguishes Goldberg from the Sean Hannitys and Michael Savages is a witty intelligence that deals in ideas as well as insults - no mean feat in the nasty world of the culture wars."[20]

Michael Tomasky wrote in The New Republic: "...I can report with a clear conscience that Liberal Fascism is one of the most tedious and inane--and ultimately self-negating--books that I have ever read. ... Liberal Fascism is a document of a deeply frivolous culture, or sub-culture."[21]

When Jonah Goldberg was a guest on The Daily Show to promote his book, the interview with host Jon Stewart went overtime, as Stewart took issue with many of the claims made in the book. The recorded interview was edited for broadcast. The interview ended with a laughing Goldberg and host Stewart remarking "Can we air any of this?"[22]

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 31st May '09 9:33 AM

I don't think you are closer to the center, Donna.

I'm rather socially liberal.

Sometimes we do agree, but I see the evils of both Left and Right.

davidf
Davidf  (Level: 102.1 - Posts: 746)
Sun, 31st May '09 9:37 AM

I think she is closer than you know

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sun, 31st May '09 9:38 AM

So do I, Andy. Do you imagine that I embrace every concept labeled "left" or "liberal" and automatically reject anything labeled "right" or "conservative"? I don't. Labels are lazy and my knees don't jerk.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 31st May '09 9:46 AM

Day by day I build an image, Donna.

On the issues we discuss here I appear generally right of center, you left.

Other issues might reveal a different picture.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sun, 31st May '09 9:49 AM

I think that only a conservative is going to write a book disagreeing with liberal, right? And the rest of the article is written by a liberal disagreeing with a conservative, right?

I would think it very unconventional when a liberal writes a book criticizing a liberal - or why would that person remain a liberal? And vice versa. Of course there's no surprise about who writes a book criticizing a position.

It's now a blanket statement to say marxism cannot be anything but right wing by definition, as definitions are constantly in flux - as is the point of this thread about political correctness. Attitudes and opinions actually do change and grow. That which originally was to protect people can now itself become injurious. The pendulum swings.

But my post shows not everyone agrees on your statement.

Right now, it is not conservatives who are oppressing and controlling. An entire country is being radically changed daily by a liberal administration. The taxation is oppressing. The control over capitalism (who is fired, who owns a major corporation - someone who has never run a business in his life)...those things that are more marxist than maybe you are willing to admit. By Definition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism which says:

Marxism is an economic political theory by which law is considered an instrument of oppression and control, and which the ruling class uses against the working class. Marxism holds at its core a critical analysis of capitalism and a theory of social change. The powerful and innovative analytical methods Marx introduced have influenced a broad range of disciplines. In the 21st century, Marxist approaches have a theoretical presence in the Western academic fields of archaeology/anthropology, media studies, political science, theater, history, sociological theory, education, economics, literary criticism, aesthetics, critical psychology and philosophy.

That all sounds like what's going on now under the most liberal administration in the history of our country.And who is in charge of academia at the most powerful universities in the country?

Conservaties are certainly not in control of anything happening now. It's a serious, scary thing changing the face of our country. The murder of capitalism.


knerd
Knerd  (Level: 99.0 - Posts: 1141)
Sun, 31st May '09 10:29 AM

Geez, I think Naomi would be disappointed with the direction her light hearted thread has taken - boo to the name callers! Thanks anyway, Naomi, for trying!

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sun, 31st May '09 10:29 AM

Yes, Jank, a conservative is far more likely to write a book attacking and smearing liberalism than is a liberal.

I hope you don't mean to imply that the sensationalistic title of this book represents an actual movement, nor that the liberal segment of our population are fascists, nor that the European fascism of the past century is in any way analogistic to American liberalism in the past 50 years.

garrybl
Garrybl  (Level: 280.2 - Posts: 6644)
Sun, 31st May '09 10:31 AM

Thanks Jank that convinced me.



Barry

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sun, 31st May '09 10:40 AM

LOL@ Linda! "A turd is crap in one piece."

Right up until it hits the fan. Then it becomes that other 4-letter word for poop.

ladyvol
Ladyvol  (Level: 205.4 - Posts: 5492)
Sun, 31st May '09 11:09 AM

Oh good grief....

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sun, 31st May '09 11:35 AM

Sorry, Vickie, just trying to lighten it up.

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.8 - Posts: 2144)
Sun, 31st May '09 12:31 PM

You guys ruined a perfectly good turd thread. I hope you're happy.

(stomps off)

barnierubble
Barnierubble  (Level: 93.9 - Posts: 637)
Sun, 31st May '09 1:05 PM

Why did you give that stuff to my grandchildren?

kaufman
Kaufman  (Level: 257.1 - Posts: 3936)
Sun, 31st May '09 1:24 PM

Q: How many anarchists does it take to change a light bulb?

A: All of them.

---------------------------

The point being that liberals are notorious for not marching in lockstep with one another, as conservatives are (often wrongly) stereotyped for doing. There are plenty of cases of liberals making fun of their own. Case in point, Garry Trudeau, author of Doonesbury, whom most of us would agree leans left of center. He picks on, satirizes and makes fun of the right a lot, but also lampoons the left when the situation and humor dictate. Remember his series on the Kennedy family? On Californians? Or last week's portrayal of Barack Obama?

Liberals, for better or worse, often tend to think that the world will not end if they disagree with each other on certain issues and make it known. So it would not be unthinkable for an attack on a liberal position to come from somewhere other than a conservative voice.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sun, 31st May '09 1:34 PM

"Yes, Jank, a conservative is far more likely to write a book attacking and smearing liberalism than is a liberal."

I thought I left enough wiggle room. Garry Trudeau doesn't think we're fascists or Nazis or Communists.

Okay, maybe a few communists - small c.


smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sun, 31st May '09 1:35 PM

Poop. Screwed up the markup.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sun, 31st May '09 1:36 PM

Testing. It was supposed to end after "smear".

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.8 - Posts: 1745)
Sun, 31st May '09 2:07 PM

Smoke you rock! If I'm not mistaken Joe McCarthy is not in charge anymore. If someone choses to adhere to principle or politics other than right or center its legal. Guess what Collieure even if I was a socialist or communist that would be my right and if I wanted to I could even register and vote that way. I certainly would not care if it was policitically incorrect. Stop with the name calling it was a joke. Labels, labels, labels, and by the way if you love the US and you are so center and not "liberal" or "left" why do you live in a country that is basically socialist or at the very least "left". France's politics is definitely left of centrist.


caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Sun, 31st May '09 2:09 PM

"Lockstep"? Now I am really confused thought the Republican Party was thought to be the Conservative Party , but everyone is saying they are a mess and in disarray- Which is it? Sorry, can't have it both ways. I tend to look at what people are doing or not doing not how they rename it.-more than a bit frightening. Asked earlier don't you think the new Woodward book might make a good read? He tends to get past the BS .

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 31st May '09 2:12 PM

I don't name-call, Bobo

Please cite an example

Otherwise please zip it

Thanks

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.8 - Posts: 1745)
Sun, 31st May '09 2:17 PM

You certainly do you have said this or that person was "left" or "liberal". I didn't say you name call but you certainly are guilty of labeling individuals. Which in this day and time is to limited. Myself, I have some views that are liberal and others that I suppose you could label as conservative. I'm not really sure where you stand on most issues because you don't commit either way.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 31st May '09 2:29 PM

Bobo, you cited my name and then you wrote "stop with the name calling."

Noting someone's leanings is a long, long way from name-calling.

I hope you will not make this mistake again. I don't see any name-calling here.

naomi4195
Naomi4195  (Level: 51.7 - Posts: 184)
Mon, 1st Jun '09 1:03 AM

It absolutely amazes me that some of you can take a light hearted little thing and turn it into some sort of left and right and liberal and not kind of argument. Can anything just be what it is and not a political argument???

Then she stomps out!!!!!

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 1st Jun '09 3:39 AM

Naomi, uh, the subject was political to begin with.

PC began with big plusses and morphed into something with huge minuses.



larefamiliaris
Larefamiliaris  (Level: 135.2 - Posts: 877)
Mon, 1st Jun '09 6:37 AM

Left, right - pfft.

Ye's are a' a parcel o' po-faced, scunnerly Sassenachs.
Now where did I put that Welshman...?

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Mon, 1st Jun '09 6:56 AM

I'm sorry I messed up your thread. I mistook it for an attempt to start a discussion.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 1st Jun '09 7:34 AM

Your contributions were quite appropriate IMO, Donna

Twas Lodi and Barnie who misbehaved.

crazy4games
Crazy4games  (Level: 123.0 - Posts: 1020)
Mon, 1st Jun '09 8:12 AM

Geez....IMO, if you start a thread, you should be prepared for it to go in any direction.

On a site with over 60,000 opinions, one should expect a discussion, no?

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21604)
Mon, 1st Jun '09 8:22 AM

LOL I know all to well what happens when someone tries to be the "Thread Police" been there done that as one of my "selves'. Didn't work then and anyone who thinks they can set terms and conditions on their thread other than Justin will most likely be disappointed-

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.8 - Posts: 2144)
Mon, 1st Jun '09 8:37 AM

Real cute, Andy.

Too bad Justin doesn't upgrade the "do things" to people to include said turd. I'd hit you with the clean end, I promise.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 1st Jun '09 1:09 PM

And, Lodi, you told me you hardly ever got caught!

fudypatootie
Fudypatootie  (Level: 197.3 - Posts: 1302)
Mon, 1st Jun '09 6:48 PM

Bobo said, "Stop with the name calling"


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.8 - Posts: 1745)
Mon, 1st Jun '09 8:49 PM

I love you guys, really. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH what a great bunch. We are too funny.

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.8 - Posts: 2144)
Tue, 2nd Jun '09 12:28 AM

That's right, Andy. It would probably be a drive-by turding and you'd never see who did it.

achad
Achad  (Level: 204.5 - Posts: 661)
Tue, 2nd Jun '09 5:14 AM

"I'm rather socially liberal.", said Andy.
Is that a sixties thing? and does it involve sex, drugs and rock & roll?


oldcougar
Oldcougar  (Level: 220.4 - Posts: 1935)
Tue, 2nd Jun '09 5:48 AM

One can only hope, English Andy

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 2nd Jun '09 6:12 AM

Sex, drugs and rock & roll?

Uh, I don't think so. That must be other other Andy.

Try good food and wine, great love, cooking, hiking, step/aerobics, bridge, France, Sploofus WPs

sandracam
Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Tue, 2nd Jun '09 6:15 AM

Nice lifestyle Coll, but don't see how it makes you "socially liberal" exactly.
Very sad about the plane. my heart goes out to the friends and families of the victims.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 2nd Jun '09 2:00 PM

How about pro-choice, pro gay marriage for openers, Sandy?

sandracam
Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Tue, 2nd Jun '09 2:11 PM

I'd say that puts you about with Cheaney these days. I think you're less likely to bomb Iran however.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 2nd Jun '09 2:51 PM

Well, you're mistaken because he is not and never has been pro-choice.

Bombing Iran is not a social issue, and not something I favor.

Yet.

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.8 - Posts: 2144)
Tue, 2nd Jun '09 4:12 PM

I can't believe my drive-by turding went by without so much as a glance. I giggled myself silly typing it.

You guys suck all the fun outa this place. Why?

sandracam
Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Tue, 2nd Jun '09 4:21 PM

"I don't know ", said the lass with the tightly clenched

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 2nd Jun '09 6:08 PM

Lodi, I thought you didn't want to be caught!

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.8 - Posts: 2144)
Tue, 2nd Jun '09 6:20 PM

What? Can't concentrate. Trying to figure out what Sandy is clenching so tightly.

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.8 - Posts: 1745)
Tue, 2nd Jun '09 10:21 PM

Lodi, I laughed out loud at drive by turding. It reminds me of Mrs Doubtfire when she says "It was a drive by fruiting". I can just picture the other and I laugh.

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.8 - Posts: 2144)
Tue, 2nd Jun '09 11:29 PM

Yes! I stole that from Mrs. Doubtfire, which has to be one of my all time favorite movies. That movie makes me laugh every single time I see it, with the run by fruiting being one of my favorite parts. Robin Williams was absolutely brilliant in that movie and I had myself believing it was really Mrs. Doubtfire.

barnierubble
Barnierubble  (Level: 93.9 - Posts: 637)
Wed, 3rd Jun '09 1:39 AM

Yee Gods Lodi, this brings to mind the English expression "Little things please little minds" Better include me in there for responding lol. Love your sense of humour really.

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.8 - Posts: 2144)
Wed, 3rd Jun '09 9:09 AM

Laughing is one of the most important parts of my day. I love to laugh. I love people who make me laugh. I love to make people laugh. I don't understand people who are sour and pinched. Enjoy what time you have here. Laugh hard, often, and until your sides hurt. Wear your laugh lines proudly. The older I get, the more I weed the people from my life who are downers. I've wasted too many precious years being unhappy and its just not worth it.

Last night, Scott and I dissolved into a fit of giggles that grew into uncontrollable laughter until I had tears running down my face and I was gasping for breath. That has to be better than any rush you can get from any drug.


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