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garrybl
Garrybl  (Level: 280.2 - Posts: 6646)
Wed, 3rd Jun '09 11:17 PM

QUOTING DIRECTLY FROM DICK CHENEY

Press Club interview four days ago.

When Richard Clarke characterized the Bush adminstration as being in a state of shock after 9/11:

Cheney's response: 'Dick Clarke, who was the head of the counter-terrorism program in the run up to 9/11. He obviously missed it.'

This is the Dick Clarke who testified in congress to the memos he had sent to Bush/Rice on January 25th warning of Al Qaeda, and asking for a high-level meeting. And on Sept 4 2001 warned them of the imminent danger of the attack.

When asked directly 'Was Dick Clarke not warning the White House directly of the danger of an attack?'. Cheney's response: 'That's not my recollection but I have not read his book.'

Does anyone out there want to defend this approach?

I know these quotes are hard to believe but you can see the verbatim interview at the Press Club -- Daily Show has these bits.

knerd
Knerd  (Level: 99.0 - Posts: 1141)
Wed, 3rd Jun '09 11:56 PM

Hey Barry - well, you know I'm not going to defend Cheney. I will say that if you haven't read the Book, "Against All Enemies" by Richard Clarke - you should. It is a very interesting read. I do remember Clarke being criticized for being too partisan after the 9-11 commission by this last administration - I found that odd because he served under 4 presidents - Bill Clinton the only Democrat. I also remember when testifying that Richard Clarke was the only government official to apologize to family members of the 9-11 victims and to say that our government failed them. Like Dr. Phil says - you can't fix what you don't acknowledge. Anyway, I hope your thread might bring out some serious and non injurious comments - I do hope that is still possible here. I have been appalled at some of the ugliness that has cropped up on the political threads lately.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 12:49 AM

Clarke wrote a book and was trying to sell a book. The most noteworthy of his claims are contradicted by his own words in a TV interview given well before he released his book.

If you think 9-11 somehow could have been prevented, here is Mr Clarke before the Senate Committee investigating 9-11

GORTON: "Now, since my yellow light is on, at this point my final question will be this: Assuming that the recommendations that you made on January 25th of 2001, based on Delenda, based on Blue Sky, including aid to the Northern Alliance, which had been an agenda item at this point for two and a half years without any action, assuming that there had been more Predator reconnaissance missions, assuming that that had all been adopted say on January 26th, year 2001, is there the remotest chance that it would have prevented 9/11? "

CLARKE: "No."

Mr Clarke had made an excellent series of recommendations in 1998. He never got to first base with them at the Clinton WH. The Bush WH was implementing them right after 9-11. It is not clear to me when they began to take action on these recommendations.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 2:14 AM

That's private Dick for you. The only knowledge he may be aware of is that he may be tried for war crimes. How much memory loss does he need in order to top Gonzales; I wonder?

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21605)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 2:58 AM

I haven't read the book either so most likely taken out of context and as Andy said most people who write a book have an agenda to get it to sell. Karen, you are a"keeper' know you more than likely don't like Cheney but respond as you do- WTG-Linda

fainodraino
Fainodraino  (Level: 113.1 - Posts: 240)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 9:57 AM

I always take so-called "tell-all" books with a grain of salt, especially if they're coming from politicians or the like. They're certainly trying to sell their book, and that's their main agenda. And as someone pointed out, Clarke said himself that 9/11 couldn't have been prevented.

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.8 - Posts: 1745)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 3:09 PM

I agree with Knerd, it certainly is worth looking into how much intelligence there was on 9/11. I would really like to see more investigation on Cheney. I won't go into a long political debate but I don't think all precautions were acted upon. I really do believe intelligence was ignored. How about Bush making sure all of Bin Laden's family was safely out of our country. The Bush administration repeated non-action in Hurricane Katrina as well. That was a debacle as well.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 5:41 PM

More nonsense, Bobo.

bin Laden is the black sheep of his family. The bin Laden family members were permitted to leave for their own safety.

(by Richard Clarke!)

You know, you of all people should avoid those Michael Moron movies.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 6:34 PM

Wouldn't want Americans killing Bin Ladens family now would we?

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 6:55 PM

Not those who are on our side, Sheral. FYI they weren't exactly "his" family.

Maybe you ought to skip the Michael Moron movies too.

fainodraino
Fainodraino  (Level: 113.1 - Posts: 240)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 7:28 PM

Shouldn't we ALL skip Michael Moron's movies? I mean, when his so-called "documentaries" have been proven over and over to be a mix of hoaxes, setups, incorrect information, and outright lies, you'd think people would get the picture. At least the intelligent ones do.

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.8 - Posts: 1745)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 8:41 PM

Collieure, more nonsense from me. Shouldn't Bush have been more concerned about victims of 9/11 than getting Bin Laden's family to safety, who cares about their safety! How dare you, the "Black Sheep" of the family. That family had ties to the Bush family and it is fact, and well documented. You had better stop the nonsense yourself. So now you are defending a terriosts family. Most Americans are really not concerned for Osama Bin Ladens family.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 9:55 PM

I think if I were king of the world, I would have taken his family into custody and held them in exchange for Bin Laden himself.

I'm not sure OBL would have given up his freedom to save his family, though.

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.8 - Posts: 1745)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 10:36 PM

That is true Jan. The last thing he (Bush) should have been concerned about was getting his business buddies out of the country. I mean really, they should have been taken into custody and held by rendition. See if they wouldn't give up someone I bet they probably knew some terriorist faction out there. Instead of escorting them out of country on a luxury plane ride to safety, the very idea. He knew they would be targets here in US that is why he acted so quickly. This is all big business, it also goes back to his father, Bush Sr.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 3:38 AM

More nonsense, Bobo

Another subject well beyond your pay grade.



knerd
Knerd  (Level: 99.0 - Posts: 1141)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 8:55 AM

I hate to say that I agree with Collioure about anything but I don't believe it would have been in anyone's interests to not send the Bin Laden family home after the attacks. (Collioure, must you be such a jerk though? Really?) I have read from many different sources that Osama was cut off from the family well before 9-11 and that there had been talks if not attempts at assassinating Osama on the parts of many prominent Saudis, some of those family members of Osama. Believe me, you're not going to see me defending the Bush administration often, but fair is fair.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 1:22 PM

Karen, I defend good policy among other things . . . That's what I am a partisan for.

You won't find me defending the Bush admin on energy policy, on leadership and communication, on stem cell research, . . . They muffed all those issues and more, but they did some good things as well and they're already climbing in the polls.


knerd
Knerd  (Level: 99.0 - Posts: 1141)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 1:46 PM

Andy - you missed my point entirely - the one directed at you. I totally respect that this site has a great range of beliefs held by it's many unique members. I do believe it is possible to state your beliefs or stand up for them without personally insulting another member here. I think you are an intelligent person but you may need to take a sensitivity class.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 1:51 PM

Karen, I think you need to read Bobo's posts more carefully first.

Apparently my views are faulty because I live abroad, or as a man I can't possibly have valid views about late term abortions.

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.8 - Posts: 1745)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 2:00 PM

Andy, you have every right to criticize US policy from safety abroad. However you do so with a very elitist viewpoint as if oh I am so above it all. You poor jerks back in the States! I truly resent the "pay grade" insult. I may not have your "pay grade" but I certainly have every right to post on threads without being insulted about my socio-economic status from someone in another country. You of all people lack the sensitivity to respond on the abortion issue late term or not, not just because you are a man. I don't want to hear the virtues of the Bush administration in retrospect because I live the policies of that idiot every day.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 2:07 PM

More nonsense, Bobo. My views on abortion, as expressed here, do not parallel those of the Bush admin. Unfortunately you didn't pay attention to that, and it became another subject "well beyond your pay grade."

If you want more respect, you need to start giving it to others. Otherwise like me they also will offer responses equally or even more dismissive of yours.

And now I'm an "elitist?" That must be your word for well-informed.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21605)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 2:11 PM

I all for not mentioning positives or negatives of the Bush years-really really sick of the "inherited" line while at the same time digging the hole deeper.....

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.8 - Posts: 1745)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 2:17 PM

I read your views on abortion and like everything else I see that you neither take a stand one way or the other. Dialogue with someone like you is too frustrating although I will not speak of your living in another country again. Everyone on here clearly knows that. You speak about it all to often much more so than even people who are French speak of it. As always clearly to impress and to show your "elitist" attitude about everything.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 3:25 PM

More nonsense, Bobo. And more personal attacks based on falsehoods.

Maybe you ought to limit yourself to your opinions about the subjects here.

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.8 - Posts: 1745)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 3:58 PM

Maybe you should not try to limit my comments Andy as I will continue to post on here. "maybe you should limit your comments" What are you the new censor for sploofus. Take a hike literally.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sun, 7th Jun '09 9:06 AM

Collioure
Your constituent condensations appear here everyday since I started ready the Salty dog. You have a very clear history of being cantankerous.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21605)
Sun, 7th Jun '09 9:25 AM

Yes, it seems that way Personally have certainly had issues with his tone. He does seem to know facts though and does not bash simply for the sake of bashing like you do the prior Administration nor the religious folks. Neither does he elevate any leader the "deity" status as you do. Guess the extremist Muslims in Somalia were not tuned in to his "BRILLIANT" well-read speech-killed a lot of folks who seemed to be just doing their job or minding their own business-just an observation

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 7th Jun '09 9:40 AM

Yes, Beverly, I don't do well with falsehoods, excessive partisanship and good ole mumbo jumbo.

You?

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.8 - Posts: 1745)
Sun, 7th Jun '09 11:58 AM

Collieure "Get over Yourself" respectively of course.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 7th Jun '09 12:12 PM

Another personal attack, Bobo?

You know, I read a well-constructed post of yours on another thread yesterday. Maybe you ought to try that more often.

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.8 - Posts: 1745)
Sun, 7th Jun '09 12:50 PM

So now you decide what is a well constructed post. The day you become editor on Sploofus is the day I discontinue my membership. It was not meant to be rude I said repectfully. I just think you post with an air of superioty that isn't substaniated by your intellect.

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.8 - Posts: 1745)
Sun, 7th Jun '09 12:53 PM

Andy after some thought and consideration I have decided not to bicker back and forth with you in cyber space it is a waste of time. If you want to continue go right ahead, I don't have the passion for it anymore. I suppose you have a level of expertise in some area. But you put forth you posts with such pedantic and superior dialect that it is hard to get past. I don't think your true nature comes through in your posts.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 7th Jun '09 1:24 PM

No, Bobo, my true self does come thru. I am honest and direct and I don't put up with BS.

You have a right to your opinions and to post them here.

My problem arises when you dismiss my opinion or assertion without backing up yours. I find that quite disrespectful.

Yesterday you put something up that was well thought out. I may not have agreed with it, but that was your well-formed opinion which I respect. I hope you offer more like that.



bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.8 - Posts: 1745)
Sun, 7th Jun '09 5:00 PM

Andy, you do have a way of talking down to people which really puts people off even when they have somethiing to offer to discussion. That is all I have for you, thanks for allowing me to post.

felix
Felix  (Level: 109.3 - Posts: 2500)
Sun, 7th Jun '09 5:03 PM

Andy you have my vote for Editor!

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 7th Jun '09 5:50 PM

Thanks so much, Felix.

Do you think I could be paid in euros?

felix
Felix  (Level: 109.3 - Posts: 2500)
Sun, 7th Jun '09 5:51 PM

It's all about the perks, Andy.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 7th Jun '09 5:56 PM

Fill me in, pullllleeeeeeeze

felix
Felix  (Level: 109.3 - Posts: 2500)
Sun, 7th Jun '09 6:10 PM

You can do the following:

Threaten player memberships
Delete posts of those you dislike
Get personal info from the players files
Pat your self on the back
Give yourself awards
and a 401K

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 7th Jun '09 6:14 PM

Felix, I come here for fun, not revenge. Well, there are a couple of Sploofusers whom I enjoy skewering.

Nevertheless I think I still prefer a paycheck.

felix
Felix  (Level: 109.3 - Posts: 2500)
Sun, 7th Jun '09 6:17 PM

It is much more fun on the outside looking in.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 105.1 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 7th Jun '09 6:22 PM

Well, if asked, I will serve, but I really need to find some more volunteer work here.

Maybe in finance with the Secours Catholique courtesy of my wife.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Mon, 8th Jun '09 1:10 AM

Felix, it's only a 200.5K now.


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