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surreyman
Surreyman  (Level: 260.5 - Posts: 2770)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 4:38 AM

SO LET'S TALK BRIT POLITICS INSTEAD .........

Obama's had his share of these pages!

And today we Brits vote for Euro elections (a farce in itself since the Euro parliament is pretty powerless anyway).

But chatting with another Sploofus friend produced my outburst below.

Might be interesting to hear USians' impressions from afar?

===============================

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the EU.

But without the unwanted political incursions into national sovereignty.

And without taking on economic lame dogs for political (ant-Warsaw Pact etc.) reasons that is costing the UK, France etc. billions. The EU apparently COSTS the UK $70,000,000 PER DAY NET! (Funded by a population only 20% of the US, so an equivalent to the US of approx. $350 million a day). We just can't afford that.

And the trading benefits? Most industrial rescuers into the UK currently still seem to be non-EU members - Japan, Russia, etc.
Currently we have one industrial problem that could see one of our EU 'partners' close down a massive UK car factory! Much of our essential iindustry - gas, water, power, steel - is now owned by other nations - a potential security nightmare.

And we also want the EU without the bureaucratic millions also being squandered internally.

The 'lame dogs' can by all means be helped by the EU from without, and should be, until they're truly ready for genuine membership.

The UK's already seeing the havoc caused by freedom of labour movement - from lame dogs, not France, Germany etc.
And I've seen the billions being spent within new lame dog member nations - eagerly grasped by them, of course. But it's often doing collateral harm - a big sports complex goes up, for instance, but doesn't have the surrounding infrastructure to support and maintain it. And the inevitable price rises if/when a lame dog goes into the Euro can cause havoc.

The EU is becoming too idealistic, too expensive and too unwieldy.

Wow, that wasn't bad for early on a Thursday morn!
But at least today we have a worthless vote to cast to complain - yes, a worthless vote, which is another aspect that needs massive change.


collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 5:08 AM

I question your numbers, Alan. Isn't there lots of money spread around in the form of agricultural subsides, some of which come back to Britain?

In any case it's your problem, your union and you knew what you were getting into.

I'd be more interested in your view of the next British elections insofar as Labour seems dead in the water and the Tories have finally found someone with a tolerable personality but seem not to have any answers.

surreyman
Surreyman  (Level: 260.5 - Posts: 2770)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 5:19 AM

Nope, 30 years ago we originally joined a very sensible trading partnership, with membership limited to those within laid-down economic parameters.
Now it's a panic political expansion into nations with negative economies. We didn't join that, and don't want it.
The figures are those much published. The UK is a net CONTRIBUTOR to the EU.

Don't even start me on UK politics! Your initial summary is correct. But I do not know any party or potential PM (within or outwith Labour) who would be any significant advantage over the current lot. And that has to be a damning statement!

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 5:54 AM

I don't doubt that the UK is a net contributor. There are initial subsidies to new EU entrants (quite a few these days), but there is a lot of money, money, money. Will watch with more interest in the future.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 6:13 AM

Don't really know much about your political scene but heard that the US should pay attention to what has happened to you might soon happen to us. Whoever is in charge has emptied your coffers(nothing to do with the current top money scandals) and the UK monetarily is about to collapse. Don't know whose fault it might be but this guy was pretty sure you would get a leadership change. Don't believe he knows and I certainly do not if new leadership will fix the problem that you have spent more than you have He was selfishly looking to you as an example of unfunded debt and just hoping our lawmakers would rein in the out of control spending before we cross that line if we already have not I hav e only good thoughts and hopes for you as I do the US. Linda

chender
Chender  (Level: 193.3 - Posts: 160)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 10:29 AM

I've never not voted in an election and will be voting later today; it's the first time I've not been sure where to put my cross though!

My great fear is that the BNP may benefit from protest voting.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 10:55 AM

I have not followed elections in the UK since the Estonia. I glance at the BBC's front page from time to time. It Sounds to me you're going through pretty much the same as we are. The useless spending can really harm a country's economy. I do have one question for you . Can you see the sports complex from your backyard? If you can't get there, at least you can look at it.

barnierubble
Barnierubble  (Level: 93.9 - Posts: 637)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 11:25 AM

When will this maniac go. He was responsible for the collapse of many pension funds, he sold off half our gold reserves at rock bottom prices, and now, with sleaze oozing out of Parliament, he refuses to really address the problem. Gordon Brown should be sent to the Tower of London, to await execution. Seriously though, if ever a parliament needed to be disbanded, to let the people speak, this is the time.

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 11:51 AM

I was a staunch Labour man all of my life, until the illegal war in Iraq, i could not vote for a war criminal. Since then i have spoilt my ballot papers, but i'm voting this time. I have voted Green in the Euro elections, and Residents Association in the council elections. Brown is dead in the water, and things will be even worse under that idiot Cameron. Why a foreigner would doubt that Britain is a net contributor to the EU is beyond me, but i suppose it takes all sorts. Maybe he hasn't heard of "Google"?

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 11:53 AM

The remark about the foreigner should not have been included in my post, it was a private matter.

allena
Allena  (Level: 255.3 - Posts: 1390)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 12:12 PM

Hi Alan,
You are quite right, in my opinion. Not joining the Euro is a great decision but after that, it is hard to understand why Great Britain would allow France to tell her anything!

My opinion is biased by the Labour Party screw ups. What is good for Labour is usually not good for the country, including the lack of ability to get promoted to management and inefficiencies designed to placate a lazy employee. I feel like human nature is predominantly lazy but a few respond to incentives. Labour management hates incentives and wants everyone to be treated evenly regardless of productivity. Hence, a slow steady death spiral.

The current scandals regarding expense accounts are just the straw that breaks Brown’s back. He had his hands on the treasury too long to not have responsibility. HE is the one that has run out of other people’s money. He needs to go. Only a sharp diversion onto strict fiscal policies has any chance.

The reason you fixing yourself is important is so that the Amerian’s can stop making the same mistakes. If we see you correct yourself, maybe we will as well. Right now, many folks actually believe you have a better health care system than we do. It is impossible to believe, but it is true. Your long lines awaiting basic services are not evident to us because our media is blissfully anointing Obama as savior, like you did Tony Blair and Gordon Brown about 15 years ago.

It is with great enthusiasm that I welcome your wisdom.


larefamiliaris
Larefamiliaris  (Level: 135.2 - Posts: 877)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 1:00 PM

This is pretty much intended to be an aside rather than a whole new topic, but 'Brit Politics' might be a newly created misnomer. I can't speak for Wales, but it is likely that Scotland will wipe out Labour from many of their previously safe seats - unthinkable as that may seem. As no-one will vote Conservative, possibly for generations to come, that doesn't leave many options. Although the Liberals will pick up a lot of support, as usual it may not translate into winning anything. Which leaves (up here anyway) the SNP - for the benefit of non-UK folk, they are not to be confused with the BNP. Quite different beasts.
I cannot envisage a repeat of the late 1970's/80's situation - more than 90% of Scotland voting for a non-governing party - so, even with a general election, I can't see a mandate for any UK ruling party to still have various controls over our devolved parliament.
Something to think about.

(I'm not a Nat incidentally. And it's true about the Tories. I know bairns who've never heard of Elvis, yet know Thatcher to be a blasphemy.)

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 1:03 PM

"He (Gordon Brown) had his hands on the treasury too long to not have responsibility (for the MPs expense accounts scandal)."

Thank you, Jim. I think I should have heard that at least twenty times already, but I haven't.

Now why haven't I heard that idea here in Europe???? I even watch the BBC at times.

You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Brown was part of the problem then.

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 2:09 PM

"He (Gordon Brown) had his hands on the treasury too long to not have responsibility (for the MPs expense accounts scandal)."

I'm not here to defend Brown, but this is getting silly. The Chancellor and The Treasury deal with fiscal matters of national and international importance, not the petty cash. The rules regarding expenses actually go back to the Tory reign of terror.

didb72
Didb72  (Level: 209.6 - Posts: 243)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 3:49 PM

I was wondering about the MP expenses scandal whether I would milk the system or not if I was a MP. How many of us are able to say for sure that in the same position they would not use the system for their own profit without being illegal.

surreyman
Surreyman  (Level: 260.5 - Posts: 2770)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 3:57 PM

Where's Scotland?

Well - shows the crazy state of English/Welsh/Northern Irish/Isle of Wight/Sark and whoever else has been voting outwith the Scots!) politics.
It remains a stupid anomoly within the stupid devolution mess that England is now the only part of the UK without its own assembly alongside the UK Westminster parliament, even though the Scots seem to have half the ministers from the PM down!
Scots MPs can vote on English items, but English MPs can't do the opposite.
Now d'you think Brit politics aren't crazy?

I've just voted on a county basis for the Lib/Dems, who I'd never normally touch with a barge pole but are the only statistical competition to the Tories who got our county categorised as the worst-run in England (which is a load of rubbish but didn't do our PR any good!).

And I voted for Libertas in Europe who I'd only heard of about a week ago - they're for staying with the EU but making the whole darned shooting match a bit more sensible again. They're the people that organised Ireland into voting against the new Euro constitution, so they must be worthwhile!

Weird - for the first time in (mumble) years in a voting booth, I found the voting list (for Europe) to be about 10ft. long, with all sorts of new Mickey Mouse parties now in there. The results could be interesting!

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 5:10 PM

Let's be honest here, Britain is going to hell in a hand basket. I don't even see much levity in the fact that the US is only just behind us. In fact the whole world is in a barrel and looking for a corner to hide in. Capitalism has been an unmitigated disaster, but any system based on greed was always going to be. I stopped taking it seriously when the lunatics took over the asylum, Reagan and Maggie the remains are yours.

barnierubble
Barnierubble  (Level: 93.9 - Posts: 637)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 5:43 PM

Oh dear, Clevercloggs, you really do have a twisted idea of British Polotics. The only party that ruins the country is Labour. They have been doing it every ten years os so since the 1920's. Why are all these rotten politicians from Scotland leading ENGLAND into ruin again?

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Thu, 4th Jun '09 5:48 PM

Don't they cut the checks, Dave, check for budgetary authority on each expenditure?

Part of the problem, not part of the solution, Dave.

larefamiliaris
Larefamiliaris  (Level: 135.2 - Posts: 877)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 4:50 AM

"Why are all these rotten politicians from Scotland leading ENGLAND into ruin again?"

We have a competition - whoever wins gets to go down to Engerlandshire and see how long they can get away with it. Gordon Broon (or 'Maw' as he's kent here) gets to choose the next short list on his departure.
So far it includes; the lead singer of the Bay City Rollers, Shir Sean Connery, the guy who played 'Lonely' in "Callan", Oor Wullie and Rod Stewart. (Rod qualifies under the Tony Blair rule: Scottish/Protestant for as long as it suits. Can always change later if it looks like we're losing at half time or the Pope needs a hand.)

I agree with Alan's point about an English Assembly though. Long overdue, especially as the idea of a 'United Kingdom' seems a little stale just at the moment.

surreyman
Surreyman  (Level: 260.5 - Posts: 2770)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 6:40 AM

Nah, just time the English got down to ruling the rest of you again!
(Trouble is, I'm half-Welsh!).

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 6:56 AM

Alan, there are only two Mickey Mouse parties in the US.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 6:56 AM

Hi Didb72

Had it not been for you mentioning the MP scandal I wouldn't have thought of a way to relate UK polotics to the US.I see today Brown is in hot water. Well, I would just like two people in America disappear and that would be Dick Cheney and daughter Lynn.
Can you believe his Halliburton affiliates are now going to build another complex in the Middle East. After all the money he ripped US off he has a lot of nerve! The Enron debacle, which caused people to lost their jobs, Halliburton the USA $28 each for the disposable picnic plates, his Halliburton Nigerian scandal, the shoddy work which they knew about yet went ahead any way and killed soldiers,(mass murder) the pollution Halliburton did, and the list goes on and on. Yes there are other takers, but Lynn Cheney and her dad will have a difficult time proving to the American public she is worthy of public office, least of all President. She needs to get off her high horse.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 7:28 AM

Halliburton again, Beverly?

Yeah, they build things.

Did you want to tell us how Gore really won Florida in 2000 and Kerry Ohio in 2004 too.

Possibly Casey's October surprise from 1980 also.

Sheesh!

achad
Achad  (Level: 204.2 - Posts: 661)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 12:08 PM

Halliburton, Gore, Kelly..............not very Brit!

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 12:53 PM

I've just listened to Brown face a press conference. You'd have to be pretty cruel not to feel some sympathy for him. It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Dead man walking.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 1:13 PM

Well, first of all, Andy, I fail to see what Gore and Kerry have to fiscal corruption? Secondly, since you brought it up I think perhaps you tell me how this relates to fiscal corruption. As far as I know neither Gore or Kerry had mistress which tax payers supported. Nor did either of the two have to defend themselves by explaining why they were soliciting other men with wide stances in lavatories on the tax payers dime.I'm not homophobic either; some of my good friends are gay as well as some family members. I think they too should have rights. It's just not my cup of tea.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 1:47 PM

Halliburton has been found guilty of fiscal corruption?

For me it's just another liberal rallying cry.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 1:54 PM

Actually, Andy the rally cry has a lot to do with the American people's money being ripped off. I'm surprised at you.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 2:09 PM

I see. Since it became a rallying cry for the far left, I am supposed to accept it as true.

Sorry, Beverly, I have a higher standard of proof.

surreyman
Surreyman  (Level: 260.5 - Posts: 2770)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 4:29 PM

Cleverclogs - Brown was saying all the right things. It's just I wish he'd rant & scream 'em, not read them from a xxxxx script. That's his major problem. No charisma whatsoever.

chender
Chender  (Level: 193.3 - Posts: 160)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 4:46 PM

It seems unlikely to us now, but Hitler was reckoned to be charismatic!

I'd dispute the earlier writer who said the Labour Party destroyed the country every time they came into power. The NHS and Social Security systems we they introduced are, I think, the best in the world. Abuse of these systems is the problem that needs addressing.

chender
Chender  (Level: 193.3 - Posts: 160)
Fri, 5th Jun '09 4:47 PM

"We they" pschaw - good wine tonight!!

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Sat, 6th Jun '09 2:48 AM

Surreyman. I agree Brown was saying many of the right things, one just had to wonder who was telling him to say them. I remember that evil bitch Thatcher saying that New Labour was her greatest achievment. I begrudgingly have to agree with her. What this country needs is a socialist government, not the disaster we are bound to get under that idiot Cameron. If Brown had withdrawn all British troops from the Middle East immediately, and scrapped renewing Trident and identity cards, he'd be untouchable in the polls now.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sat, 6th Jun '09 4:13 AM

But you have a socialist government, Dave. According the journalists I see weekly on Dateline London it's rather run its course and run out of ideas.

And, of course, it has a number of members who were improperly dipping into the public till.

(BTW your description of Lady Thatcher seemed rather ungrateful; )

surreyman
Surreyman  (Level: 260.5 - Posts: 2770)
Sat, 6th Jun '09 4:37 AM

On paper the Brown government has good ideas (and some not so good!).
But the execution is often appalling and half-baked with, consequently, far too many horrendously expensive twists, turns and cancellations. If our high taxation income had been wisely spent the UK could have been in an excellent position right now. But much of it has been squandered.
And what Brown calls doggedness is often stubborness, continuing with highly unpopular projects, often also horrendously expensive.
And, whether we like it or not, today's politics demands an effective charismatic use of media. Blair went overboard and thought this could replace actually doing the job. But Brown doesn't have it at all - indeed, every appearance has negative results.
Read the script of his last press conference. If that had been delivered with zest and passion it could have turned voters around. Instead, people just switched off.
Brown's a back-room boy.
But unfortunately he currently remains our best choice. Which is why Brit politics are in such a mess.


clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Sat, 6th Jun '09 6:12 AM

Collioure ....
But you have a socialist government, Dave

.......How on Earth can anyone call this government Socialist ? This is the government that relaxed banking regulations allowing us to reach the nadir we have now. At best New Labour is centre left. I was polite about Thatcher. If she was the answer, what the fu**ing hell was the question ? She is now an old woman who is still suffering from the affects of a stroke, i hope she has a long life, she deserves it.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sat, 6th Jun '09 7:10 AM

Lady Thatcher was the answer in her time. Britain has prospered in her wake.

larefamiliaris
Larefamiliaris  (Level: 135.2 - Posts: 877)
Sat, 6th Jun '09 8:24 AM

Parts of Britain. Most of us never fell for - or were included in - the trickle down economic fallacy. A great many parts of the UK still feel the negative effects of Thatcherism. The south east of England prospered. Wales, Scotland and the north of England died a slow and painful death. Parts still bear the scars. Brown has a world-wide recession, no cash in what's left of the banks and his cabinet crumbling around his ears and he will never get close to the vitriol people (still) feel towards her - or close to the number of unemployed she created.
When she dies - and I take no great pleasure in writing this - there will be street parties all around the UK.





chender
Chender  (Level: 193.3 - Posts: 160)
Sat, 6th Jun '09 9:05 AM

Very true. I believe her policies inspired the greed that's consumed our nation over the past several decades so that, for instance, a house was no longer a home but rather an investment. She was much loved abroad; many of us would have happily sent her there!

Times are tough now - for some of the fat cats too - I sincerely hope we'll learn some lessons, adjust our standards, and come out of it with a better society.

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Sat, 6th Jun '09 9:38 AM

I hope to hold a great street party come the day, you're all invited. Incidentally, i do live in the SE, and i was 27 when it came to power, financially i did OK out of her. There is more to life than money, that evil bitch destroyed Britain.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Mon, 8th Jun '09 8:50 AM

You all know that the news I listen to is from a bunch of "Crazies'". Also Obama makes such good press kinda like a rock star so not getting much news from Europe. Did hear snippets though that at the polls European countries are expressing their distaste for Socialism. That if true could be a ray of hope for the US. What say you Europeans??

surreyman
Surreyman  (Level: 260.5 - Posts: 2770)
Mon, 8th Jun '09 9:39 AM

Much chat going on in newsgroups outwith Sploofus.
Suffice to say that in the current Euro elections, in the so-called UK heartland of the South East, the Labour party (Brown's government) came FIFTH in share of vote!!!!!

Now if that ain't no sign ..........................


clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Mon, 8th Jun '09 9:53 AM

The government, who i am no great fan off, is getting it in the neck for three main reasons. Firstly, the GLOBAL recession, for which they can't take take too much of the blame in reality. Secondly, MP's fiddling their expenses. This is actually across all parties, but of course the party in power take most of the flak. Thirdly, they've been in power for a long time now, and people want change. The real tragedy of the Euro elections is the fascist BNP getting two seats. Their vote didn't go up, but Labour's crashing numbers was enough to let the slime in. We need a Conservative government like a fish needs a bike, people have short memories. 15%+ interest rates,here we come.

surreyman
Surreyman  (Level: 260.5 - Posts: 2770)
Mon, 8th Jun '09 11:23 AM

Totally agree.
Not sure whether I've said it here or on other newsgroups but ...
Not all of Brown's major probs actually originated with him, for sure. But some did and were even defended and encouraged by him (the immigration fiasco for one, which is causing the BNP rise).
But what he's suffering from, and deserves to, is his lack of energetic management of these (and, sometimes his downright mismanagement) and his woeful inability to communicate his actions/aims. His post-Local Elections press conference said all the right things, but it was the most wooden reading-from-script without any conviction whatsoever that I've ever seen!
We do need someone far far better but, miserably, there currently is no-one better. Certainly not xxxxxxxx Cameron and his schoolboy shadow Chancellor.
That's the anguish of UK politics today.
No wonder the Welsh, Scots & Irish are backing off - the English don't seem to be allowed to!
But many English have just shown their feelings via the Euro elections - Labour FIFTH in vote share for xxxxxxxx sake! - and even the Welsh have just turfed out Labour for the first time since the party was invented! To any Welshman such as myself that's akin to stopping handling in rugger!


clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Mon, 8th Jun '09 11:35 AM

Rampant capitalism and consumerism has destroyed this country, and i fancy most of the "western" world too. I keep hearing about "when" we get out of the recession, i'm still thinking "if". Who did "we" look after on the way up ? Can we expect any favours on the way back down ? Even people on benefits here (i'm sorry, that sounds awful) expect 42" TV's and a car now, it is unsustainable. I'm a proud socialist, and do you know what socialism means to me ? It means everyone having what they need, before we worry about a few getting everything they want. Those on benefits low wages etc should not go without, but they do need to understand the difference between want and need. I expect no lead or assistance from the fat cats.

surreyman
Surreyman  (Level: 260.5 - Posts: 2770)
Mon, 8th Jun '09 11:45 AM

Yep, I'm a small 's' socialist (that doesn't mean Communism, USians!). It also means I'm right of centre on some matters.
And I agree with most you've said.
Your 'need, not want' phrase is the most adept I've seen in a long while. That's the massive difference from pre-Thatcher days. This aspect of what was in many ways an admirable society previously has virtually disappeared, and I don't think it can now come back.
The 'good old days' indeed were, in many respects.

chender
Chender  (Level: 193.3 - Posts: 160)
Mon, 8th Jun '09 1:00 PM

A hearty agreement from me too!

larefamiliaris
Larefamiliaris  (Level: 135.2 - Posts: 877)
Mon, 8th Jun '09 2:09 PM

Dammit all - I'm agreeing with the Welsh & the English!
How can this not happen in politics?!


Can I add that low voter turnout may also be to blame for the fascist upturn? I don't know the figure for the UK, but I know in Scotland it was under 30%.



barnierubble
Barnierubble  (Level: 93.9 - Posts: 637)
Mon, 8th Jun '09 3:16 PM

Some of us tell the truth about Margaret Thatcher. She was the best thing to happen to Britain at the time. Forget all the rantings of the loony left, they just cant stomach the fact that Margaret Thatcher was good for Britain, whereas the Labour party has always been a disaster.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 8th Jun '09 3:19 PM

I think they both have had their good moments, Bill.

Right now it looks like Labour is out of steam and trust; the Tories, not ready to govern.

chender
Chender  (Level: 193.3 - Posts: 160)
Mon, 8th Jun '09 3:58 PM

I hope it was due to low turnout and not the potentially more dangerous xenophobic reaction to unemployment.

Sorry Bill, I'd quite happily forgotten the days when criticism of Mrs T resulted in one being accused of being "loony left".

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Mon, 8th Jun '09 4:25 PM

Hey Barnie, used that "disasterous" NHS lately ?

barnierubble
Barnierubble  (Level: 93.9 - Posts: 637)
Mon, 8th Jun '09 5:14 PM

Here in Spain, the NHS seems to work. My wife would be dead now if we had stayed in England, and she was a nurse. She collapsed here one evening, next morning was air lifted to Alicante hospital for IMMEDIATE surgery, which saved her life.

surreyman
Surreyman  (Level: 260.5 - Posts: 2770)
Tue, 9th Jun '09 4:47 AM

Why would that not have hapened in UK?

barnierubble
Barnierubble  (Level: 93.9 - Posts: 637)
Tue, 9th Jun '09 1:18 PM

Because the doctors would still be talking about whether their Trust could afford the cost. It took threats to make them take her appendix out AFTER it had burst.

surreyman
Surreyman  (Level: 260.5 - Posts: 2770)
Wed, 10th Jun '09 5:26 AM

Nonsense.
Emergencies are where the NHS score top.
Your 'discussions' obviously happen, but never for emergency need.

chender
Chender  (Level: 193.3 - Posts: 160)
Wed, 10th Jun '09 6:24 AM

Weren't NHS Trusts set up under Mrs Thatcher's government?

achad
Achad  (Level: 204.2 - Posts: 661)
Wed, 10th Jun '09 7:59 AM

In 1990, under the National Health Service & Community Care Act (in England), Health Authorities ceased to run hospitals but "purchased" care from their own or other authorities' hospitals. Certain GPs became "fund holders" and were able to purchase care for their patients. The "providers" became independent trusts, which encouraged competition but also increased local differences. This was at the tail end of Mrs. T's time as Prime Minister.

barnierubble
Barnierubble  (Level: 93.9 - Posts: 637)
Wed, 10th Jun '09 11:59 AM

Were you there, Surreyman. I did not see you.

chender
Chender  (Level: 193.3 - Posts: 160)
Wed, 10th Jun '09 12:31 PM

Hmmm! Free eye tests abolished. When was that I wonder?

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Wed, 10th Jun '09 2:37 PM

Do you remember how she got the name "Thatcher the Snatcher" ? Even before she was PM (Post menstrual Minger) she took the free milk from the school kids. I hope she drools for another twenty years before she dies a withered old hag, not that i bear malice or anything.

barnierubble
Barnierubble  (Level: 93.9 - Posts: 637)
Thu, 11th Jun '09 5:54 AM

May all you wish for Margaret Thatcher be visited on you fourfold. You obviously deserve it. LOL

surreyman
Surreyman  (Level: 260.5 - Posts: 2770)
Thu, 11th Jun '09 8:17 AM

During those times I always thought I was a lone voice of wisdom, but since no-one else seemed to agree ..........

Thatcher was right in attempting to rid the UK of so many archaic practices - e.g. the stranglehold of unions (when demanding idiocies rather than sense) etc.
Matters needed to be massively rearranged on economic/business lines.

But she forgot that those so direly hurt by such necessary actions (miners etc.) should have been treated and compensated humanely.
And she forgot, when selling the nation's silver, not to sell it overseas, so that (as now) we became beholden to other nations for vital supplies.
And she forgot, when letting our entire financial industry loose into laisser-faire, that some regulation might still have been a reasonable idea.

Seemed so simple to me at the time, and still does.

But, now, we're up to our waist with the alligators, and today's mediocre UK politicians don't seem to have the faintest, rather than feathering their own nests until found out.

allena
Allena  (Level: 255.3 - Posts: 1390)
Thu, 11th Jun '09 8:58 AM

Probably what we read has little to do with what is going to happen but it appears that Brown will be retained and then lose a tight election to David Cameron. However, Cameron is young and brash and has none of Thatcher's gravitas. It is possible that Obama is going to run for King of Britain?

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Thu, 11th Jun '09 9:00 AM

Thanks Barnie, and may you stay just the way you are now, for the same reason.............

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Thu, 11th Jun '09 9:03 AM

Allena
It is possible that Obama is going to run for King of Britain?
,,,,,,,,,,,,My money would be on him over a 400 metres against Betty, especially if it's a hurdles race.


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