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goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 7:37 AM

WHAT A WASTE.

It really is a shame that a few people can ruin what was a very cool board. If there is anything you care about...don't mention it here. Got a personal problem, don't mention it here. Got an opinion, don't mention it here. You will be called drunk, baby killer or anti-american.
It's really very sad that some have zero respect for the people they interact with everyday. It makes me wonder why they come here at all? Just to hurt and incite? It is no wonder that there are really on a handful of regular posters anymore, everyone else has been run off or said heck with this crap.

felix
Felix  (Level: 109.3 - Posts: 2500)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 7:51 AM

(yawn)

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 7:55 AM

(pfhtt)

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 8:10 AM

Honey, I know it can seem that way sometimes, but it's only an internet message board. Don't take it to heart, it's just people being who they are.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 8:13 AM

I am not taking it personal (my skin is a bit thicker than that)...just stating an observation. This used to be a fun place.

felix
Felix  (Level: 109.3 - Posts: 2500)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 8:14 AM

My comment was in regard to the board in general. It's become very ....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 8:15 AM

Still is. Say something funny, it's your turn.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 8:19 AM

Okay, that was kinda funny.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 8:29 AM

I agree, it has become a bit zzzzzzzzzzzz....my guess is that it's because a good portion of people left.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 10:06 AM

Or maybe it is zzzzz because this is not a small group; any more that knows each other and cares about the minute details of each other's lives. As to reasons why people quit it is just a natual rotation in and out of hings on any internet site. Probably some got extemely frustrated that things remained broken and slow because they didn't have a clue who Justin might be, that he owned this site, and other than the natural empathy that on human being usually feels for another his persona,l issues did not mean much either. What was ISN'T now we have to see what it will be. Get threads started that interest a diverse group instead of lamenting what used to be and what happened

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 10:10 AM

I don't think a good portion left, I just think that those who don't like bickering and personal attacks have just gone quiet, waiting for it to seem safe and friendly here again.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 10:33 AM

Friendly

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 10:38 AM

I like "lamenting" , makes me feel like I fit in.

donden
Donden  (Level: 112.5 - Posts: 2127)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 10:58 AM

Why can't we argue? I spend less than half the time in Sploofus as I used to simply because it has become BORING. The people and places in WTHAI might as well be from another planet and the forums are downright snoozers. I can find more stimulating and controversial subject matter at the local Hallmark store. Let's start another forum with a little less threat of censorship and leave salty dog to the group hugs and love sessions.
DD

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 11:00 AM

I will argue with you if you want...pick a topic. But...I won't call you names, or insult you. Can you handle that?

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 11:04 AM

I got no problem with arguing. I enjoy it and I'm good at it, but I like it to be more like a debate than a bitter marital spat.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 11:11 AM

Ditto.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 11:12 AM

I'm with Don. It is not some of our faults (note the victim reference) that we are not as clever with the use of inuendos guess that is a way of insulting personally without using naughty or hurtful words ......

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 11:13 AM

You are very good at that, don't underestimate yourself.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 11:14 AM

Thank you ever so much-Linda

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 11:17 AM

I note repeated victim references, but I don't understand what you mean by them.

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.7 - Posts: 2144)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 11:19 AM

You guys all have bad hair and your momma dresses you funny.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 11:21 AM



barnierubble
Barnierubble  (Level: 93.9 - Posts: 637)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 11:30 AM

Geez Lodi.I didn't think you had noticed.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 11:34 AM

My hand will not allow me to hold down the mouse and copy exact words-victim again. Believe if you or anyone looks back art your post that begins "Whatever Michael Jackson was" in Smaug's farewell to him think it is quite clear that you were offering a Reason/Excuse for whatecver he might have become that is Victim Mentality". course you, your relatives and dare i say the word "cronies' will deny it...

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.7 - Posts: 2144)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 11:36 AM

Your Lederhosen is about a size and a half too small. That's not attractive what it does in the front.

The Bo Derek cornrows went out in the 80's.

garrybl
Garrybl  (Level: 280.2 - Posts: 6643)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 11:39 AM

I know sone might consider me an expert in rudeness or innuendo...but since this last comment (to Smoke?) was not addressed to me can I throw in my two-pennyworth and say that your comment was rude Linda?
Using a word like 'cronies' is sneering and mean-spirited and carries nasty implications. I hope you didn't mean it -- but that's how it comes across.
Putting 'colleagues' or 'friends' would carry the same sneer but be far more subtle.

1mks
1mks  (Level: 211.0 - Posts: 5883)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 11:42 AM

You actually have something against the toes of camels???????????????

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 11:45 AM

Yes, you did dare. Never knew I had "cronies."

I know "victimhood" is one of your pet peeves, but if a tiny kid is worked like a dog, abused and beaten and we don't know what else, how is he not a victim? That man was a victim of his father and his own fame. In this case I won't run from the word.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 11:50 AM

Just please do not pretend you don't know what I am talking about. Apologize if the word "crony " offended anyone. Would polli/tical friends from the last picture have been lees offensive-dunno- but , Yes, Bary you are an expert at snide innuendo whethefr it be Marsha 17 or a "tacky joke'" HUGS...

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 11:58 AM

Was that snide innuendo when you took a shot at Clevercloggs while asking about Susan Boyle?

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 12:00 PM

Lederhosen....LOL!!! Too funny.



smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 12:02 PM

I give, guys. Pointless anyway.

Stopped raining - I'm talking some dogs to the beach.

Have a great afternoon!

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 12:06 PM

That was neither snide nor an innuedo as that is what Cloggs called her while praising her talent. At the time even sent hmm a pm saying that something had gotten lost crossing the pond. "bag of scanners/spanners' is a term i had never heard before and don't believe most in the US had. Cloogs and I do not agree on many things but we actually have what I consider a amicable relationship-often exchange pms. Her is an "up front" person which i like whether I agree wih him or not Linda

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 12:07 PM

It is pointless. Sorry I started this thread, just gives the trolls food. If Justin wants to this place to be this way then so be it. I have a while left on my membership but probably won't renew.

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.7 - Posts: 2144)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 12:14 PM

I am not particularly fond of the toes of camels, or their much larger, more heinous, cousins, the knuckles of moose. I find both repulsive.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 12:14 PM

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

papajensai
Papajensai  (Level: 193.2 - Posts: 1025)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 12:17 PM

If I said you had a camel toe, would you hold it against me?

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 12:19 PM

OMG!

monkeynips13
Monkeynips13  (Level: 21.5 - Posts: 647)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 12:32 PM

completely off topic, but I'm lovin Lodi's and Marsha's new avatars. Oh, and how did I miss the memo about cornrows?

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 12:35 PM

The guy was a really good singer and dancer.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

There are uncountable kids all over the planet mistreated, abused, etc. Most grow up and either become a good citizen or don't.

When you've become the world's most well-known person and have made a billion dollars over your career and have not been a child in 32 years, when do you start taking responsibility for your own life, either forgive those who hurt you or cut all ties and put them in your past forever, and stop being a victim?

The rest of us have stopped being victims decades ago. We escaped the abuse and stepped out into adulthood, in charge of our own lives, and enjoy our freedom.

He's a news item. His death is a news item. It was treated beyond the scope of any decency or logic. It has become even way beyond a sad circus. But it became that way because of the public. We as a nation are out of control.

I'm sorry he died. I enjoyed writing of stuff he did that I enjoyed and admired. But 12 days with almost unending news coverage? That is beyond the scope of anything I could imagine humans who didn't even know this person could ever do.

And in the meantime, important things that will affect every day for the rest of our lives happened that were practically ignored.

Man's first landing on the moon and first footstep there didn't garner this much attention or news coverage.

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.7 - Posts: 2144)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 12:35 PM

RJ, I'm not holding anything against those parachute pants. Zippers are snag hazards, as I'm sure you are well aware.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 12:57 PM

I agree Jan. Well said.



papajensai
Papajensai  (Level: 193.2 - Posts: 1025)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 2:29 PM

They're Hammer Pants, Lodi, and U Can't Touch This.

salzypat
Salzypat  (Level: 156.5 - Posts: 5316)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 2:48 PM

Goddess, I have read all the posts on this thread, beginning with yours, and. I have no idea what your first post was about other than you find everything negative on SD. But that's exactly the tone I read in your post.

If you want things to be different, be part of the solution, not the problem.

Donden, you want conversation more stimulating than all the sweetness you seem to see on SD, so start a more controversial topic.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 2:53 PM

Pat, I was blowing off some steam like so many do. I am not as eloquent as my mother so sorry if my post was not clear. This board has become very negative and I let myself get caught up in it, that won't happen again. Sorry if I brought you down.

salzypat
Salzypat  (Level: 156.5 - Posts: 5316)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 3:01 PM

Nah, you didn't bring me down. You just confused me, which gets easier with each passing day.

resolsufoolps
Resolsufoolps  (Level: 20.7 - Posts: 95)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 3:43 PM

A couple radio guys were talking about camel toes this morning and laughing about it.

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 3:49 PM

I agree, the boards are a bit more boring now, but the other situation wasn't really "tolerable" either. I don't get why the political threads have stopped. Why not continue to debate as we are allowed. Were the continual "insults" really attracting participation, or was it the heated subject matter??

donden
Donden  (Level: 112.5 - Posts: 2127)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 4:16 PM

Well now, I am pro choice, I do not like illegal immigrants, I can't stand Evis OR Michael, I think the conflict in the middle east is a senseless war started by an idiot and continued by another idiot. American baseball, football and hockey are great,,,basketball sucks, (does that make me a racist?), Rush Limbaugh is a bloated buffoon, and his two wannabees Levin and Hannity are both deranged,,,but then so is Al Franken. I am not a chauvinist but I think Palin, Clinton and Pelosi are a menace to society, and that reminds me, where are all the Shirley Chisolms?? Oh btw, I am a great guy and love critters, and think beer is the nectar of the Gods. I hope I have upset someone.
DD

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.7 - Posts: 2144)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 4:18 PM

Your fly is open.

donden
Donden  (Level: 112.5 - Posts: 2127)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 4:30 PM

That's OK, it's no big thing.

slicko
Slicko  (Level: 223.9 - Posts: 1609)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 4:38 PM

Don I am completely offended by your dislike of Evis

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 4:39 PM

Being rained on and knocked down in sand by happy dogs restores perspective.

Buster's first time to the ocean - what a hoot!

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 4:42 PM

Don and where did Papermanbill go?? He didn't like me dissing Chicago and the "Chicago Way" but liked his style no innuedos or underhanded remarks made in the name of innoncent quetion . Miss him- Linda

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 5:04 PM

You mean like that one?

Maybe my sense of irony is overdeveloped.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 5:12 PM

clueless as to your point if you made one, Smoke. Good for you, Don, sure I can find something in your post to upets me but the first two reads showed me we are on the same page with the things you mentionened. exception being Elvis-upsets me ou didn't like him bet that will upset even Vickie - Linda

jeannette
Jeannette  (Level: 111.1 - Posts: 1736)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 5:13 PM

and there was me thinking camels toes were what you got wearing jeans that are to tight

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 5:16 PM

I find footbal, boring though almost on par with watching tennis or golf

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 5:18 PM

And..... your fly is open but I'm too old to look

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 5:35 PM

Oh, I made one.

salzypat
Salzypat  (Level: 156.5 - Posts: 5316)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 6:24 PM

Donden: "That's OK, it's no big thing."

Thank you for a really good laugh.

I know you like critters - so can't argue with you there. I think you are a much nicer person than you sometimes come across on Salty Dog. No argument there.

not sure I would classify Palin as a menace to society, but could find grounds for agreement about Hillary. Although I do have to admit I think she's doing a pretty good job right now.

Not sure I would agree that Rush Limbaugh is a bloated buffoon, but I do think he is an entertainer and should not be taken seriously as a political pundit.

I disagree with you on pro-choice but I'm not going to debate you on that because neither of us will change our minds.

Dang, I tried to find a reason to snarl at you but I just can't find a thing in your post ....

try again, OK?

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 7:14 PM

I loved your post, Don.

And I never thought I'd hear myself say how much I miss Hillary! ha

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 7:31 PM

Never did get what Hillary did to be so hated. Stood by her man and tried to help her country. Why do people hate her so?

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 7:52 PM

For the very reason that she stood by her man.

And then BSed her way through and instead accused the Republicans of making it up.

If she had left him to suffer the consequences of his lying, cheating, lousy self, shaken the dust of his indiscretions off her feet, and walked out, she would have been president today.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 7:53 PM

Oh sure, punish the woman.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 8:04 PM

didn't know the discussion wa about Palin's daughter

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 8:04 PM

Well, we did our best to punish him, but you guys wouldn't let us.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 8:10 PM

it's not, Linda. try to keep up.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 8:12 PM

Seriously, Jank, you despise this woman for sticking with a philandering husband?

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 8:15 PM

OOPs just ot sidetracked by the comment about punishing the woman-assumption being you don't like the man. Lead me to the jump of don't like the mother punish the kid-so sorry you know how slow-witted I am

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 8:31 PM

No, this is a brand new subject. No Palins here.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 8:33 PM



mitchy
Mitchy  (Level: 130.6 - Posts: 964)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 8:37 PM

What Jeanette said,"and there was me thinking camels toes were what you got wearing jeans that are to tight"
Hum.... thats why he said he liked those tight jeans. I thought it was cause it made me look thin! ha hahahaah!





caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 8:50 PM

Now I get how this thread is all about Hillary . The thread topic was "What a Waste"

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 8:55 PM

I was think the same thing about Palin.

sandracam
Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 9:00 PM

Maybe Hillary loves Bill anyway. I don't understand your argument Jank.

felix
Felix  (Level: 109.3 - Posts: 2500)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 9:12 PM

Palin, what a waist!

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 9:15 PM

I do like the way you think, even if I don't agree. lol

sandracam
Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 9:18 PM

I knew you'd say that Felix!

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 9:28 PM

You betcha!

ladyvol
Ladyvol  (Level: 205.4 - Posts: 5490)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 9:32 PM

I know that there are folks out there that don't care for Elvis but I've been a fan since I was 4...he and Ricky Nelson both by the way....It doesn't upset me to hear someone voice their own opinions. I have some of my own but I try and keep them to myself most of the time anyway...Elvis was 100 times more a better entertainer than Michael Jackson could have ever thought about being...Yes, he had his faults but I loved him warts and all...THE MAN COULD SING ANYTHING! Now that I've said that, I think I'll hush before someone sends me a nasty note and tells me to shut up!
Vickie

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 9:38 PM

My son has most of his music and he is only 19, Elvis lives on.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Wed, 8th Jul '09 9:41 PM

Felix - you're starting to sound like a Soccer Dad.

salzypat
Salzypat  (Level: 156.5 - Posts: 5316)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 12:20 AM

Smoke, I don't recall anyone saying they hated Hillary Clinton. In fact, I said I thought she was doing a fairly good job right now. I did say i didn't think she was a menace to society but just didn't care for her. I don't care for okra either, but that doesn't mean I hate it either. Just means I don't care for it.

As far as not liking her for staying with her husband, I think it made her look stupid and I don't think she's a bit stupid. My personal opinion is she didn't stay with him for the sake of her marrige vows but because she didn't want to lose the position of first lady. And, to her credit, maybe she felt it would have been detrimental to the country for her to leave him.

As Dr. Phil is always asking people : "What's in this for you? What's the pay-off for you?" Ask yourself those questions about Hillary. Your answers to that will probably be different from mine.

I just think you made a big leap when you came to the conclusion those of us who don't particularly care for Hillary then must hate her.



smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 12:36 AM

I didn't come to any conclusion about "those of us," Pat, but the profound contempt of the right for Hillary Clinton is a well-known fact. It really is tiresome to have to explain every statement to death to avoid having someone take the most general statements in a personal way.

I did not mean to imply that you personally hate Hillary Clinton, but if there IS someone here who feels strongly against her, i was curious as to why.

That's all.

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 1:03 AM

I don't know Smoke, I googled it and there lots of opinions about it. Though I will be completely not helpful to you, because I don't remember the details, I just remember listening to her speeches and having profound objections to her ideology. So, I dislike her as a candidate. I liked her for standing by Bill, whatever the current "speculations" are about her reasons for it are.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 6:03 AM

The only reason I kept pressing Palin into the discussion at all was becausce such a point on my stupidity for not knowing that the topic was Hilary., Of course, I thought the original tilte should describe Hillary as it was "What a Waste'" This thread has turned so many times that no one could have been off-topic. Think when it comes to Politicians of any ilk it is much easier when one is on the side of tearing down as you don't need much fact about their actual accomplishment-thats why so many refuse to let any thread turn to the position of stating positives-in other words their guy/gal is better than the alternative. Just plain hard to defend many politicians these days when you are forced to discuss positive accomplishments Linda

garrybl
Garrybl  (Level: 280.2 - Posts: 6643)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 6:11 AM

I AGREE WITH LINDA.
(Only with regard to the fact that there are way too many posts on the same thread; makes my head spin when everybody is answering the last post but three). Any fans of the Two Ronnies will remember the routines of answering the last or next question....


caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 6:41 AM

Hurray, Barry, progress has been made. We have reached tentative agreeement on something!

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 8:45 AM

Thank you for your thoughtful and civil answer Jeremy. What is it about her "ideology" you don't like? This is something I've wondered about for years, from the very beginning. It seemed to start with the cookie-baking comment and go downhill from there.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 10:03 AM

Not to answer for Jeremy (I'm sure he'll be back to do so himself), but her ideology is Progressive - which means she is for larger federal government. She said, "I prefer the word ‘progressive,’ which has a real American meaning, going back to the progressive era at the beginning of the 20th century. I consider myself a modern progressive." Hillary’s Wellesley thesis was over Saul Alinsky.

Progressives, by definition, want to nationalize every aspect of American "private" life - and totally destroy any privacy whatsoever.

She really does believe it takes a village. When the village is in charge, individuals and individual rights and ownership are sacrificed for the good of the village.

You might remember what that is called in the real world - I believe that is "communism." Socialism is "communism lite." IMO.

Progressivism is Big Government, Big Brother to the extreme.

If anyone wishes to dig into what is really happening with our country (with some democrats, some republicans, liberals, and all progressives) I would encourage you to read Sal Alinsky's book, "Rules For Radicals," an ideology in which the Clintons and the Obamas have been immersed. (As you read, see if ACORN comes to mind.)

While youthful desire to change the world (for the good!) is admirable, some ways are anti-Constitution - actually, anti- everything on which America was built. Progressivism is not the ideology on which America was founded, and I pray the progressive movement disappears some day soon so we can return to our strong roots.

I do not hate Hillary. But I sure do hate the progressive movement she (and others) wants to implement.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 10:21 AM

Interesting definition of "progressive" there, Jank, and I'm afraid I don't agree with it. Being progressive is about moving forward and helping people, and by extension, society as a whole. It's not a synonym for communist or socialist. Words do mean something more than what you want them to.

It takes a village is an expression that says a community should take a moral responsibility for its children, don't turn your back on them, they're the future, and what our own future is will be determined by what we do for them AS a community. It used to be down-home common sense when the moms in the neighborhood watched out for kids that weren't their own. Looking out for each other is human decency and ... ahem ... family values, not communism.



jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 10:34 AM

Donna - read Rules for Radicals and get back to us with what progressive REALLY means from the guy who pushed it - and about whom Hillary wrote.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 10:42 AM

Are you talking about Saul Alinsky? He wasn't a communist or a socialist either.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 10:49 AM

He might not have used those words, but a rose by any other name....

"The Progressive Movement began late in the 19th Century. Its Central Tenets are Statism, Income Redistribution, Unionism, Government Management of the Economy, womb to tomb provision for its citizens, and a Libertine Social Policy. To accomplish these aims, The Progressive Movement believes in State Ownership of Businesses—instead of Entrepreneurial Free Enterprise; Central Planning by the Government of the supply of goods and services, including fixing prices of wages, and of goods and services—instead of Free Market Capitalism; That all Citizens should have equal wealth except for the Elite Rulers; And that Sovereignty does not belong to Individual Citizens—but that the People only exist for the benefit of the National State. Various large parts of this Ideology are identical to ******Socialism and Fascism, including the ideas that the use of courts, bureaucracies—even the police and military—should be used to accomplish goals that would never be approved by a Democracy or a Republic..."

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 10:50 AM

Argh! Sorry sorry sorry! I left off the reference:

http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Progressive-Movement



smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 11:05 AM

I refer you to Rules for Radicals, Ethics of Means and Ends, Rule 4:

The fourth rule of the ethics of means and ends is that judgment must be made in the context of the times in which the action occurred and not from any other chronological vantage point.

I think the progressivism Clinton claims is a little different that that envisioned by its 19th century proponents (and opponents), and I think she only grasped at that word because she's trying to run away from "liberal" and progressive is often used to mean opposed to conservative. Funny thing is, true progressives don't consider her one of them.



jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 11:16 AM

That is strange - and of course I had no idea.

What in Hillary's ideology do true progressives not believe includes her?

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.7 - Posts: 2144)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 11:34 AM

This thread had potential once.

Can someone please start a "Would you rather..." thread?

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 11:39 AM

100 posts!

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 11:44 AM

101. Live large.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 11:51 AM

hehehe!

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 1:04 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/09/unlike-predecessors-clinton-left-presidential-foreign-travel/ You don't suppose some big important person has stooped to the getting even thing do you?

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 1:13 PM

What, he broke her arm? That bastard!

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 1:34 PM

I see. Good to know that Sonia's leg break was not nearly as serious as she is going everywhere up and down the steps and corridors. Would be very difficult traveling on Air Force One and the lousy accommadations provided in other countries and Obam's physicin and medical facilities which travel with him would be unavailable to her with her broken arm though. Really sad that Bill had to be in Haiti as they could have spent "quality time" together

salzypat
Salzypat  (Level: 156.5 - Posts: 5316)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 1:37 PM

With Hillary's experiences as first lady, she is obviously more experienced in diplomatic relations and poised in etiquette. She would outshine the president and no boss wants an employee to be smarter or better than he/she is. The only way to avoid that is to leave the brighter star at home.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 1:41 PM

Why do I care? I'm not inclined to let you pick a C&P spat with me because you know I admire Hillary Clinton. Better luck pissing me off next time. Carry on tracking the Clintons on FOX, I'm sure you'll get a "fair and balanced" view.

foogs
Foogs  (Level: 267.9 - Posts: 848)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 1:41 PM

The article about Obama and Clinton offers some nice
lessons about newswriting.

First of all, the choice of the word "ditching." Definite
negative connotation as opposed to some less inflammatory
synonym.

Then there is, "Some analysts say." Hmmm. What
analysts, I ask.

I don't mean to pick on Fox because every news organization
does this. It's impossible to write without making
choices. But ask yourself what Fox might have to gain by
creating a perception of tension between Obama and
Clinton.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 1:43 PM

Excellent point, Pat.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 1:43 PM

FOX is all about rhetoric.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 2:03 PM

Pat has a good point. This thread is long and like you said what do you care? Would be interested in a future discussion between you and Jank though in perhaps another thread-interesting Totally out of character to let someone who dsagrees with you and argues well get the last word. Also good points, Ross.. Will have to check MSNBC for their take that is if the noted it at all

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 2:29 PM

No, it's not at all out of character, and you should stop saying it because it's not true.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 2:32 PM

Culdn't find any reference to Hillary at all on CNN or MSNBC so could't get their take on her not going along on the trip. Lots of talk about Palin nd MJ though and even Pelosi Panetta, and Baener.. Just seems a bit odd that no real war coverage or anything concerning Hillary with what is going on in places like Iran and the Uigher thing in China

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 2:34 PM

Maybe she's just so damn good she can manage it with her lap top from the back porch.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 2:37 PM



flcyclist
Flcyclist  (Level: 124.5 - Posts: 691)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 4:17 PM

I have to admit that I don't frequent the forums anymore for several reasons. Either people are arguing (name-calling and all) about something inane or the whole thing is just plain boring. Why waste my time reading boring or angry posts??? I have a life and enjoy it a lot without the forums, thank you!

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 4:28 PM

Well... you are welcome

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 4:40 PM

What she said!

felix
Felix  (Level: 109.3 - Posts: 2500)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 6:08 PM

What the heck is a soccer dad? Anyway my mom says that I am cool.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 7:08 PM

My mom says I am cool too! (and my mom can kick your moms butt....(KIDDING!))

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 7:24 PM

Hey now! I can pick my own fights, thanks!

Kumbaya, y'all.

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.7 - Posts: 2144)
Thu, 9th Jul '09 7:29 PM

Come by here?

barnierubble
Barnierubble  (Level: 93.9 - Posts: 637)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 2:20 AM

Flcyclist, how did you manage to get in here if you do not read the posts. Are you Psychic?

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.9 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 11:41 AM

Donna

Re: Hillary

Very simply she's a very crass politician who back in arkieville and then again the White House was a crook. She had already ruined Bill's Presidency with all HER scandals and her very unsuccessful co-Presidency long before the Monica fiasco erupted.

And all that does not include enabling Bill to . . .

foogs
Foogs  (Level: 267.9 - Posts: 848)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 11:57 AM

Revisionist history is so hard to do well.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 3:23 PM

Thanks you for sharing your opinion, Andy. I'll file it with the others, as soon as I decide if it should go under B or S.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 3:55 PM

I don't care who ya are, that's funny.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.3 - Posts: 21602)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 4:07 PM

at least the last thread that refused to die had one topic

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.7 - Posts: 2144)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 4:19 PM

I like ice cream.

resolsufoolps
Resolsufoolps  (Level: 20.7 - Posts: 95)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 4:25 PM

tubthumping by chumbawamba

flcyclist
Flcyclist  (Level: 124.5 - Posts: 691)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 4:30 PM

To Barnieruble!

Yes, how did you guess that I'm psychic???

No, actually I occasionally browse and look at a few of the titles to see if anything sounds interesting. This one did and I agreed with the first comment made, so I posted. You won't see many posts from me, tho. Not because I don't like any of you, but, as I said, I have better things to do.

Thanks for asking!

Nancy

1mks
1mks  (Level: 211.0 - Posts: 5883)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 4:35 PM

I like Butterfingers.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 4:44 PM

This is the mish-mash thread. Post any old thing that pops into your head.

papajensai
Papajensai  (Level: 193.2 - Posts: 1025)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 4:59 PM

Squirrels.

felix
Felix  (Level: 109.3 - Posts: 2500)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 5:12 PM

Chicks dig me.

donden
Donden  (Level: 112.5 - Posts: 2127)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 5:13 PM

Ida Lupino

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.7 - Posts: 2144)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 5:20 PM

Where in the world IS Carmen San Diego, anyway?

knerd
Knerd  (Level: 99.0 - Posts: 1141)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 5:20 PM

Ida Ho.

sandracam
Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 5:33 PM

what did Ida ho? She hoed her Mary land, of course.

lodi
Lodi  (Level: 98.7 - Posts: 2144)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 5:42 PM

Ida Pimp

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Fri, 10th Jul '09 5:53 PM

Ida Bomb!


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