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clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Sat, 1st Aug '09 5:18 AM

FREE GARY MCKINNON

http://freegary.org.uk/ Please click on this list and read about Gary's plight. If you agree that he is being treated harshly please contact your government representative. The current extradition treaty between the US and the UK is not equitable, it should be suspended until it amended. Gary is neither a terrorist nor a man who seeked to harm anybody. Why did these computers have neither passwords nor firewalls ? They have been hacked into hundreds of times. How can Gary get a fair trial in Virginia ?


some eminent supporters of Gary McKinnon:

Nick Hornby - award winning author
Barry Norman - film critic
Jilly Cooper - author
Trevor Baylis - inventor
Lord Clement Jones of Clapham - Chairman of the All Party Autism Group
Alan Simpson MP- Labour
Dr. Vincent Cable MP - Liberal Democrat Treasury Spokesman
Norman Baker MP - Liberal Democrat
Tim Loughton MP - Conservative Children;s Spokesman and Vice-Chair of the Parliamentary Group on Autism.
Peter Kilfoyle MP - Labour former Defence Minister
Lord Morris of Manchester - Labour
Dr. Dawn Heath - Psychologist

Trudie Styler - Actress, Producer and wife of Musician Sting
Sting (Gordon Sumner CBE) - Musician
David Gilmour CBE - Pink Floyd Musician
Julie Christie - Actress
Peter Gabriel - Musician
Keith Duffy - SInger and Actor
Emma Noble - Model and TV Presenter
Rt. .Hon. David Cameron MP - Conservative Leader
Rt. Hon. Nick Clegg MP - Liberal Democrat Leader
Rt. Hon. Charles Kennedy MP - former Liberal Democrat Leader
Rt. .Hon. Sir Menzies Campbell CBE QC MP - former Liberal Democrat Leader
Rt. Hon. David Blunkett MP - former Labour Home Secretary
Boris Johnson - Conservative Mayor of London
Kate Hoey - Labour MP
Rt. Hon. Tony Benn - former Labour MP and Minister
Terry Waite CBE - Human Rights Campaigner
Shami Chakrabarti - Director of Liberty Human Rights

oldcougar
Oldcougar  (Level: 219.7 - Posts: 1935)
Sat, 1st Aug '09 5:59 AM

Did you bother to read that the lad has Asperger Syndrome, he probably didn't understand the consequences. The protest isn't about him not being charged only that he be charged in the UK & not extradited to the US. I have a son with Aspergers or high functioning Autism if you like, even though they are generally very clever they do weird & sometimes wonderful things.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sat, 1st Aug '09 6:38 AM

No relative of mine even though we share the same last name

tuzilla
Tuzilla  (Level: 133.8 - Posts: 3777)
Sat, 1st Aug '09 9:32 AM

This is a complex issue. I have a decent understand of Asperger's. My son is borderline for it, fortunately on the non-asperger's side, but it cause a lot of reseaching it when he was first in school. I listened to a BBC report on the issue. From what I heard...and this is just my opinion, only my opinion...he should be convicted of what he did to avoid setting a legal precedent. As for the sentence, it could be suspended or involve community service. It seemed he is obsessed with UFOs...obsessions being a common trait of Asperger's victims. He was not maliciously hacking. He was hacking to uncover suppressed UFO information. He had been inside government computers for 2 1/2 years before he was caught. It took 2 1/2 years!!! to track him down, and he wasn't even trying to hide himself. The $3/4M he cost the government was mostly the shutting down of systems and patching his exploits of them. The systems are presumable stronger now, and may better withstand malicious attacks. The report also said he has 2 more appeals before actual extradition would occur. That is a lot of time to sort this out and to let reasonable people to reach reasonable agreements.

Sploofus Editor
Sploofabulous (Editor)  
Sat, 1st Aug '09 10:45 PM

I have deleted a few exchanges between Clevercloggs and Collioure. If the two of you want to duke it out by PM, please feel free to do so. Please spare the rest of us.

Thanks
.

mrbojangles
Mrbojangles  (Level: 16.6 - Posts: 231)
Sat, 1st Aug '09 10:58 PM

I saw absolutely nothing wrong with their exchanges - but then I wasn't FORCED to read them.

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Sun, 2nd Aug '09 2:48 AM

Pathetic.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.6 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 2nd Aug '09 3:00 AM

Ditto.

nelly
Nelly  (Level: 172.0 - Posts: 1167)
Sun, 2nd Aug '09 5:11 AM

Common ground!

godwit
Godwit  (Level: 78.7 - Posts: 435)
Sun, 2nd Aug '09 5:51 AM

I have a relative, about my age, has it too. He thinks it is highly amusing to do things he should not do. Often he is simply baffled and bewildered when his actions upset people. For him I think it's primarily about the technical challenge, and he likes to feel smarter than other people. In fact he IS smarter than most people. In that odd way.

I suppose he has embarrassed the government terribly, exposed a great flaw, and created enormous expenses: therefore, it has to be pursued. Yet I agree, he has created an opportunity to address a problem.



surreyman
Surreyman  (Level: 260.4 - Posts: 2770)
Sun, 2nd Aug '09 6:16 AM

Seems to me the expenses incurred by the US Government department concerned were due to rectifying that department's own system failings. They should almost welcome the revelations, that enabled tighter security to be formed against far more vicious potential foes.
A loss of face seems to be the reason for pursuing this to such ludicrous degrees.
It's patently obvious that the kid involved, though legally wrong, was relatively harmless.
Ain't going to do much for that 'special relationship' if this continues to be progressed.
These days, we need to direct our energies where they're truly needed.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.6 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 2nd Aug '09 11:21 AM

I can agree with most of that. Good post, Alan.

But we can't have anyone hacking into such stuff. Hence we, not you, should decide this case.

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Sun, 2nd Aug '09 2:09 PM

Then why did he require no passwords, and why was there no firewall in place ? These computers were hacked into with monotonous regularity. Why should we have an extradition treaty with the US that is not equitable ? Furthermore we should not extradite anybody to a country that uses torture.

achad
Achad  (Level: 204.1 - Posts: 661)
Sun, 2nd Aug '09 2:51 PM

Why not just pay the man half of what all this is costing to make sure no one else can do the same thing?
As the advert says "Simples".

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sun, 2nd Aug '09 5:05 PM

We're Americans. We don't do "simples."

papajensai
Papajensai  (Level: 192.9 - Posts: 1025)
Sun, 2nd Aug '09 6:00 PM

I don't think we do torture anymore, either. The Brits don't behead their kings and queens anymore, either, and it's not nice to keep bringing it up.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sun, 2nd Aug '09 6:30 PM

Hey, c'mon, one king and two queens - CENTURIES ago. Hold a grudge much?

papajensai
Papajensai  (Level: 192.9 - Posts: 1025)
Sun, 2nd Aug '09 8:36 PM

Just my point. My country has said, through our head of state, that we don't do that anymore. The way to enlist support for your cause among Americans is probably NOT to say we're a country which tortures.

And, back to the thread topic, I spent a few minutes with the link provided by Cloggs and can't say what the guy actually did, if it caused any harm to anyone, or any other facts which would help me know what I think about the situation. If those things matter to anyone, could they just say what he did so I can decide what I think about it?

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.6 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 2nd Aug '09 8:40 PM

Oh my, Ron!

Now you have gone and done it.

Like me you have criticized Dave's reference. Now he will answer gruffly, and the hall monitor will arrive to delete posts again.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sun, 2nd Aug '09 8:48 PM

I agree with you, Doc, just messin' around.

Here's the wiki on the case;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Mckinnon

papajensai
Papajensai  (Level: 192.9 - Posts: 1025)
Sun, 2nd Aug '09 8:51 PM

Nah, I try to ignore silliness like that. If anybody wants to tell me what the facts are, I'd like to know. Not interested in carving notches on my bitchy stick.

papajensai
Papajensai  (Level: 192.9 - Posts: 1025)
Sun, 2nd Aug '09 8:52 PM

Thanks, Smokey. I knew where you were coming from. Thanks for the link, I'll go there now.

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Mon, 3rd Aug '09 4:25 AM

Rjenson
Thanks, Smokey. I knew where you were coming from. Thanks for the link, I'll go there now.

A thousand apologies.....Ron is it ? I supplied a link, with names and everything, i didn't realise you hadn't heard of Googling.

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Mon, 3rd Aug '09 4:45 AM

Government to insist Gary McKinnon serves sentence in the UK.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6736469.ece

............What it actually says......“If found guilty, we will seek for him to be sentenced to serve prison in this country,” (Harriet Harman)

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Mon, 3rd Aug '09 8:10 AM

This should probably be a whole different thread but have a question for you Dave. When Bush was in office the headlines every day were abourt soldiers dying in Iraq. Now a whole lot of soldiers including British are dying in Afghanistan and it hardly makes the major newspapers. Is it because Obamaa has chose the proper war? He is maintaining most of the Bush policies like indefinite detention and wiretapping/ Think I get it but need to be clear.

papajensai
Papajensai  (Level: 192.9 - Posts: 1025)
Mon, 3rd Aug '09 11:21 AM

I should know better than to get into one of these threads.



smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Mon, 3rd Aug '09 11:28 AM

You're just too nice, that's your problem.

I suffer from it too.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Mon, 3rd Aug '09 11:29 AM

LOL THAT is funny

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Mon, 3rd Aug '09 11:46 AM

Caramel1 (Level: 18.9 - Posts: 3575)Mon, 3rd Aug '09 8:10 AM

This should probably be a whole different thread but have a question for you Dave. When Bush was in office the headlines every day were abourt soldiers dying in Iraq. Now a whole lot of soldiers including British are dying in Afghanistan and it hardly makes the major newspapers. Is it because Obamaa has chose the proper war? He is maintaining most of the Bush policies like indefinite detention and wiretapping/ Think I get it but need to be clear.

First of all, i am not a US ian and i have no desire to get dragged into your warped electoral system. Any system that requires $US billions to get elected will only ever result in another corporate poodle. I am an active member of the Stop The War movement, the war in Afghanistan is no more justified than the illegal attack on Iraq, and that is not dependent on who is President or PM. I despised Bush because he was the impetus behind all of this killing, he is a neo con, and a bible puncher to boot. His smirk made we want to do to things to a man that i haven't done since i stopped drinking.
I was a life long member of the Labour Party before Iraq, i haven't even voted for them since. Brown and Obama both had an opportunity to turn this carnage around, both have failed miserably. Both made some of the right noises, neither delivered. Being of the left myself obviously some of Obama's policies are preferable to me, but the man is no socialist.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Mon, 3rd Aug '09 12:02 PM

Had noticed you were not from the US and didn't like the US nor Bush much. Glad to see that you onsider Afghanistan a no more "proper" war than Iraq. Bush probably caused the Great Flood and the Fire of London Also know what you mean about sometthing someone does making you incredibily angry,. With me it is the repetirtion of the words,"Let me be perfectly clear" or a slight variation thereof

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 117.7 - Posts: 1745)
Mon, 3rd Aug '09 1:55 PM

Once again I find that it is not really the job of editors to censor everything on a chat forum but that is just my opinion. We choose to read the posts and if they offend us then we can move on to something else. Censorship is not the answer.


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