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bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 5:03 PM

MOUNT OBAMA

http://www.caribbean360.com/News/Caribbean/Stories/2009/08/05/NEWS0000008369.html

I'm very happy to see your accomplishment.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 5:07 PM

confused as to who "accomplished" what


bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 5:33 PM

* North Korea using his vision of having the best and brightest; Bill Clinton with the help of Hillary, Bill Richardson.

* Without the stimulus, the economy and the job prospects for millions of Americans would be much worse.

*Established a credit card bill of rights

*Expanded eligibility for State Children's Health Insurance Fund (SCHIP)

* Signed the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities

*Granted Americans unrestricted rights to visit family and send money to Cuba (families need love too)


*Restored funding for the Byrne Justice Assistance Grant (Byrne/JAG) program

* Overturned Ledbetter vs. Goodyear (fair pay for women)

* Reversed restrictions on stem cell research ( great for healthcare research)

* These are just a few you can fact check the other's

* Whoops, don't forget the puppy he promised his daughters

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 5:43 PM

Linda
That's very nice as President George Bush did a lot for AIDS though out the continent of Africa. Most africans are eternally grateful for that Humanitarian gesture.
However, it's nothing like having your own mountain towering over everyone!

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 5:50 PM

Beverly, please don't post those silly lists, mostly of totally worthless stuff.

It just pegs you as a partisan cut-and-paster who doesn't understand real accomplishment.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 5:57 PM

Andy, what on earth makes you think you have any more right to ask Beverly not to post her positive viewpoint, than anyone else has to ask your side to stop constantly posting negativity?

This is your thread, Bev, post what the hell you want, hon.

Sheesh.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 6:16 PM

It's fluff, Donna

Beverly's posted those before. She doesn't even know what they're all about.

For example, the "credit card bill of rights" didn't do anything for consumers.

Overturning Ledbetter vs. Goodyear didn't provide equal pay for women. They already had it.

Let us know when unemployment gets down to 7%, when the deficit is less than 3% of GNP, when bin Laden is killed, when we have substantially reduced our oil imports - those would be accomplishments

garrybl
Garrybl  (Level: 279.5 - Posts: 6639)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 6:21 PM

Andy

I know I've posted rude comments here in the past; I apologize for that.
but your comments are just mean-spirited and unpleasant. I wish you wouldn't make them.

Barry

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 6:27 PM

Linda, this was one of the threads posted on that link you posted about the Bush highway.


George Bush: World Class Monster


Friday, 21 April 2006
George Bush: World Class Monster


http://www.davidicke.com/content/category/6/23/42/

'Evil is arrogant. It has no conscience. It is utterly self-serving. It hides from the light and will attack, even destroy others to preserve its own demented delusions. It is an unrestrained sociopath, wallowing in the murky darkness of its own psychosis while endlessly rationalizing its terrible deeds. It infiltrates the weak-minded and subverts the weak of character.
Evil... creates a world of shadows - shadow play - shadow government. It lives by the lie.'
Read more ...



collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 6:29 PM

FYI, Barry

A few of those initiatives may bear fruit - stem cell, Cuba

But most of it is fluff.

Sorry about those mean-spirited FACTS once again.

Ta-ta.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 6:34 PM

What might seem fluff to you may be seen as long-awaited signs of hope to others. There ARE others, you know. I ask myself from time to time, "do we need more fluff, or another lead balloon?" Very uncool of you to say Bev doesn't know what her own posts are about. Attack what she posts with impunity, but questioning her understanding is personal, and insulting in the extreme.

What was that Jank was saying about radicals and ridicule? Are you a disciple of Saul Alinsky, Andy?

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 6:44 PM

Goddess - you're exactly right. However - that blogger put the wrong president's name on the comments.

asor
Asor  (Level: 155.7 - Posts: 589)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 6:46 PM

We've already established that it's OK for me to be crushing on Smoke's avatar. Wonder whether I should worry that I've also begun crushing on Barry's...



What can I say, I've got a thing for intelligent discourse!

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 6:49 PM

Yours is pretty cute, too, Asor.

asor
Asor  (Level: 155.7 - Posts: 589)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 6:54 PM

Why, thank ye

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 7:14 PM

Gotcha, Goddess, you hate Bush-lots of folks do. Everyone has a right to post as they chose as long as they stay within the bounds of Sploofus rules. Would just like to note that some in order to elevate who they believe in feel the need to denigrate others either in the political or religious arena and along with them those who voted for or believe in them-seems like negativity but dunno

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 7:18 PM

Puhhhh-leaseeee!!!!!

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 7:21 PM

Andy,
Look, first of all , if you are the one determining what my level of comprehension is; you will always be banging your head against the wall. Simply because you disagree with mostly everything anyone says. I would think it's you who doesn't understand any point; except yours. In Addition to that, it's very condescending and disdainful for you, a supposed to be moderate, to imply I'm ignorant.

Speaking of ignorance it, you may learn something, if you would just read. Women do not always receive the same amount of pay as women do. Reading is fundamental!!! In order for you to substantiate you wild claims you need a little background.Try reading before you open your shameless mouth.

Because women earn less, on average, than men, they must work longer for the same amount of pay. The wage gap is even greater for most women of color.
The next Equal Pay Day is Tuesday, April 20, 2010. This date symbolizes how far into 2010 women must work to earn what men earned in 2009. Tuesday was selected to represent how far into the work week women must work to earn what men earned the previous week.) The date also is selected to avoid avoid religious holidays and other significant events.

Now did you gloss over again, or will you concede the only person this topic is you?



fudypatootie
Fudypatootie  (Level: 197.1 - Posts: 1302)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 7:23 PM

The title of this thread is crying out for a lewd comment....

spacecat
Spacecat  (Level: 158.6 - Posts: 667)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 7:25 PM

A few years back they tried to rename Canada's highest peak (Mt. Logan) after the late Pierre Elliot Trudeau. There was a wave of protest and the name Logan still identifies the mount.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 7:25 PM

Now did you gloss over again, or will you concede the only person who doesn't equal pay for women is you, Andy?

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 7:27 PM

Fudy
The title of this thread is crying out for a lewd comment.
***************

It's very sad you see things that way.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 7:30 PM

Equal pay for equal work which includes women was established long before Obama the Mountain signed anything -the signing was symbolic which just about everything abourt his Presidency has been up to now

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Wed, 5th Aug '09 8:58 PM

Now did you gloss over again, or will you concede the only person who doesn't know about equal pay for women is you, Andy? I'll be waiting for your reply.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 4:24 AM

Donna, I recognize real accomplishment, not just pretty words, or legislation that doe snot really change anything.

So Obama's leadership on the Somali pirates was excellent and the crew was freed. In the end I think what he did with the auto companies was pretty positive. I'm not sure a less heavy handed approach might not have produced a better and cheaper result, but we could not have endured a major calamity in the auto industry at that moment.

Beverly, how many times to I have to tell you. Women under law already had equal pay for equal work. The legislation you cited was a legal refinement (concerning back pay as I recall).

The puppy wasn't a real accomplishment for the American people either, but you can keep citing it if you wish.

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 10:29 AM

At the expense of sounding like a "woman hater" (sigh)

"Overturning Ledbetter vs. Goodyear didn't provide equal pay for women. They already had it".

Andy's perspective here is a valid one, and certainly a matter for debate. Well, at the very least, I don't think you proved your point Bigmama. When the wage disparity is "controlled" for to account for things like men taking "dirty" jobs where they sometimes get paid more, men having more experience in the workplace, men generally putting more hours into their job than women, women leaving the workplace to give birth to babies....etc. the number is "thought by some" to be the same.

For example, from an older interview of a then philosophy professor, "MRS. SOMMERS: (the wage gap is) now 71 cents, and that is not correct because you have to control for age, length of time in the work place. And if you look at younger women now, the age -- the wage gap is closed. It's now -- when they have children, it's 90 cents.". (http://www.menweb.org/paglsomm.htm)

I'm not saying that this perspective I've given above is true, only that it's a debatable topic and Andy's position that Ledbetter vs. Goodyear did nothing "because they already had it" could certainly be defended.

You didn't deal with Andy's claim that the credit bill of rights did nothing for consumers, so I won't deal with either. Besides, it's a topic I know less about.

fudypatootie
Fudypatootie  (Level: 197.1 - Posts: 1302)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 11:23 AM

"Fudy
The title of this thread is crying out for a lewd comment.
***************

It's very sad you see things that way."

Geez. Lighten up. It's called a joke. You should be familiar with the concept of making a joke at the president's expense.




garrybl
Garrybl  (Level: 279.5 - Posts: 6639)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 11:52 AM

But also important to distinguish between 'joke ABOUT president' and 'joke president'....

I approve of the former but not of having the latter.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 11:56 AM

Well put, Barry. I wouldn't have been so diplomatic.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 12:03 PM

Please give examples illustrating the difference ty

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 12:11 PM

And yet - it didn't bother the same people to say joke president about Bush - moron, buffoon, etc.

Your double standard is ....well, we already know. We suffered through it for years. It's been thoroughly discussed in SD.



goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 12:15 PM

I admit freely that I thought he was a buffoon and often referred to him as Curious George.

asor
Asor  (Level: 155.7 - Posts: 589)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 12:22 PM

Goddess, I think you owe buffoons an apology!



smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 12:27 PM

Incurious George is more accurate.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 12:39 PM

You are right...I am sorry to all the buffoons I have offended.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 12:41 PM

http://barackobamajokes.googlepages.com/ since these are "about" not "is" they are okay to repeat?

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 12:51 PM

These are way funnier.

http://o.bamapost.com/

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 12:55 PM

But YOU aren't

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 12:56 PM

People really believe that stuff....freaky!

fudypatootie
Fudypatootie  (Level: 197.1 - Posts: 1302)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 12:58 PM

Just for the record, I did not say anything at all about Obama being a joke. I made a joke about him. Wait, no, I didn't. I implied that someone SHOULD and furthermore, I think if Smaug had made the same comment, you'd be all, "Oh, that Smaug; he's so irreverently funny!"

Come on, admit it. If the thread had been titled Mount Clinton the jokes would have been rolling in. Just because Obama is not a skirt chaser doesn't make the double entendre of the words "mount Obama" any less open for jokes.

Disclaimer: This post is the sole opinion of its poster and does not in any way reflect the opinions of the thread starter, the PTB, or Smaug. Those who find offense anyway can call 1-800-BOO-HOO.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 1:04 PM

I thought it was funny.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 1:08 PM

Fudy - you totally missed the point.

The point they're making is:

Only liberals/progressives are allowed to make jokes about presidents - and those jokes must only be about presidents who are republicans or conservatives.

Disclaimer: Non liberals/non progressives will be allowed to make jokes about presidents IF and WHEN those jokes are only about republicans or liberals.

There. Whew! I'm so sorry you didn't get the memo about these rules. Please don't let even the appearance of a joke about a liberal/progressive president ever happen again.

leenah
Leenah  (Level: 2.3 - Posts: 18)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 1:09 PM

I await the day when the sensitive Obama fans let down their guard, and we can speak of Dear Leader like every other political figure in history.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 1:10 PM

Who's "they"? That's not the point I was making.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 1:12 PM

Thanks for the support, Jeremy, but equal pay for equal work has been the law for some time now.

To listen to Beverly, you'd think equal pay for equal work just became law.

But when you keep citing the Presidential puppy as an accomplishment, you know there isn't much to tout.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 1:13 PM

You can speak of him now, Leenah, just as we can speak of Bush. By all means, let it rip.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 1:14 PM

Fudy - I deeply apologize - I messed up the disclaimer. This is the corrected Disclaimer Version 1.1:

Disclaimer: Non liberals/non progressives will be allowed to make jokes about presidents IF and WHEN those jokes are only about republicans or *conservatives.

Please disregard and shred Disclaimer Version 1. It will get you reported to the White House for being fishy.

fudypatootie
Fudypatootie  (Level: 197.1 - Posts: 1302)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 1:15 PM

Sorry, Jan. That message must have headed into my junk mail box 'cause I certainly didn't get the memo. Thanks for keeping me up to date. I'll try hard not to break any more rules.

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 1:24 PM

Got it Andy, I took a shot as to what you meant, oh well.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 4:25 PM

Stoutyoungladd
I don't think you are a misgoynist.

My point in my face off with Andy is no matter how you cut the dice the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Restoration Act was a milestone for working women (most women are the heads of households).
The Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Restoration Act that President Obama signed also promised to reduce the wage gap between the genders. No matter how many factors you cite, such as control for age, length of time in the work place, job description whatever; they are incorrect.
My point being the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Restoration Act brings attention to women currently make approximately 80 or 90 cents for every dollar that men earn.
Those numbers are not equal.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 5:20 PM

No, it didn't, Beverly.

As noted previously several times you don't understand the items on the list you continue to post.

Google it and come back with an explanation in your own words.

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 5:35 PM

"No matter how many factors you cite, such as control for age, length of time in the work place, job description whatever; they are incorrect."

Umm, citation please!! (I honestly don't think we can come to the bottom of this question entirely.....)

"My point being the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Restoration Act brings attention to women currently make approximately 80 or 90 cents for every dollar that men earn. Those numbers are not equal."

If the decisions that females make play a more important role in the wage gap than discrimination (which may or may not be present btw, such as women not putting in as many hours, which job, etc), than shouldn't woman choose to make different decisions to close that wage gap rather than putting into place legislation to force them to be equal?? I mean, shouldn't they earn it somehow? I'm being half-serious btw, I think discrimination plays some possibly small or large part, in debate is how much.



collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 5:47 PM

Jeremy, this bill has noting to do with wage differentials. It cures a seldom-visited legal loophole.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 6:05 PM

Again Andy

You're the only one who understands everything.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 6:10 PM

I read it in Wikipedia, Beverly.

Apparently you didn't.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 6:12 PM

What did you read in wikipedia about the gap between men and women's pay scale?

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 6:18 PM

I read part of the wiki article, and to be honest I didn't read the whole thing because I felt I had better things to do. My understanding of it was that it had something to do with when people could sue about wages. Seemed like it was similar to the statute of limitations on suing for wages or something. It did seem like a legal loophole, but I wouldn't know if it was seldom used or not. Still, it is on the topic of wage disparities as far as I know, and I am enjoying the discussion!

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 6:18 PM

Nothing because the law you cited deal with a technical issue of pay discrimination lawsuits.

Equal pay for equal work did not just happen this spring.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 6:41 PM

You're absolutely correct, Andy

That's the issue I'm debating since for women it still remain to be in great disparity since the early 20th century. That's why you have groups fight for and monitoring this issue such as the next Equal Pay Day. It will be held Tuesday, April 20, 2010. which symbolizes how far into 2010 women must work to earn what men earned in 2009.



felix
Felix  (Level: 109.3 - Posts: 2500)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 6:41 PM

The list was funny fiction, right?

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 7:28 PM

No Felix, there were accomplishments which Linda said she was not aware of and Andy took exception to. I need to add one more.

*No mainstream economist believed that the recovery measures would produce an immediate turnaround in the economy, but they did expect them to slow the downward spiral and help generate a turnaround sooner than would otherwise occur.

* Economists...
Dean Baker: "The stimulus worked and we need much more. Politico, 8/2/09

*Robert Greenstein: Without the stimulus, "the economy and the job prospects for millions of Americans would be worse The Washington Times, 7/28/09

*Mark Zandi: No accident "that the recession's coming to an end now because this is when the current stimulus package is providing its maximum benefit to the economy." The Wall Street Journal Report, 7/31/09

* Cash for Clunkers one plant has been able to add a 5th day to a four day work week I just heard on the news.

The president is doing a fine job considering the consequences he inherited.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 7:55 PM

Hard for folks to hear good news when they have their fingers in their ears going "neener neener neener," Bev.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 8:26 PM

Hope the unemployment numbers out tomorrow are "good news"

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 8:28 PM

Do you, really?


bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 9:14 PM

Hope the unemployment numbers out tomorrow are "good news"
********************************************************************************
Linda
I don't know what you mean by good. I hope you don't mean more bad numbers so you can say President Obama is failing.
Sorry, there will not be "good news" unemployment numbers out tomorrow.


At a breakfast this morning, Council of Economic Advisers chair Christina Romer said "Market experts are telling us is that we will lose hundreds of thousands of jobs. It does emphasize the economy is still in a recession. We do think we are improving the trajectory, but there is just no denying the fact that we are still in tough times for the American people." In fact, it improved from a more than 6-point decline to just 1 percent.

In others words.... "The rise in GDP growth from the first quarter to the second was the largest in almost a decade, and the second largest in the past quarter century.



smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 9:59 PM


allena
Allena  (Level: 255.3 - Posts: 1390)
Thu, 6th Aug '09 10:59 PM

Stoutyoungladd has a lot to offer. I am impressed. We have little to feel good as our dollar drops precipitously (128 to 169 against the pound in four months) and we go merrily watching the interest rates rise hopelessly. If Obama had gone to any business school he would not let the folks writing his speeches say the stuff he is reading, proving he is a mouth piece. He actually read the lie that he met his wife in School

However, we are left trying to understand the future that includes the administration's successful and unsuccessful lies. To wit, lets move to inflation management, get the media to understand we are not idiots, and lets get ourselves focused on the election in 2010. Nothing else matters.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 3:44 AM

Of course I don't want folks to lose their jobs. I hold my breath daily for my three kids as they all work in Michigan. I do want folks to realize the dangerous path he has put our country on and hold him aand the lawmakers who support his policies. accountable-am actively wworking to make that happen-Linda

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 8:47 AM

We are all waiting for 2010 to throw the bums out.
I don't think the President can respond to every lie about his person life as they are ubiquitous.

felix
Felix  (Level: 109.3 - Posts: 2500)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 10:14 AM

I loved the administration report cards that Clinton News Network did. I think that maybe America is ready to stand up to all of the smoke and mirrors that BO has going on. It's sad that your pride causes you to defend BO as his numbers go south. Go Figure.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 10:23 AM

Some people must cry into their pillows at night because we can't have a new election every day. I know I used to.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 10:36 AM

You too?

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 10:39 AM

The whole family and all our friends, except the in-laws, but they're crying now.

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 10:42 AM

If the day ever comes when Obama drags the US into an illegal war. Or if the day comes when he endorses torture camps, i will admit i was wrong to support him over that accident prone geriatric chappie........ and his pet moose. Until then i seem to have got it right, best of a bad bunch. There is a lot of truth in the old adage that " a country gets the government it deserves". We got Blair, and we deserved him for not having Thatcher slung into the Tower.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 10:49 AM

Clolggs, just out of curiosity what would you call what is going on in Afghanistan? Sure the troop increse is somehow the fault ofg "The Shrub" as you fondly call him. Funny thing is we here in the US dont hear much about the dying of our troops there-we focus on Michael Jackson- or those killed by the drone strikes a :Shrub" tactic continued by, Obama

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 11:09 AM

If Bush had gotten bin Laden when he had him cornered instead of shifting focus to a bogus personal war in Iraq, Afghanistan could've been over long ago, bin Laden might be dead, Al Queda and the Taliban broken, and 9/11 avenged, and Iraq need never have happened at all.

And who knows? The economy might even be in better shape.

Ah, hindsight...

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 11:10 AM

I totally agree that Obama has been disappointing in not undoing The Shrub's wrongs. I suppose the only way the US could have screwed up worse than in Vietnam, although i think their support of Israel is as bad, is to screw up in two countries at the same time. Most people don't have a clue just what a disaster Iraq is going to turn out to be yet, but i think many more realise that this Afghan debacle is destined to fail. The criticism of Obama is as easily levelled at Brown, what a disappointment.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 11:11 AM

Well,Clevercloggs
If you take a look at the violence the Big , Fat ,Greedy Republicans are organizing and bussing the mass of low information people to talk about lynching, to make Death Threats, and to burn effigys. Big , Fat ,Greedy Republicans not are grassroots;. They are protecting they money through these ignorant puppets. Then there's Linda's posting her misunderstanding of our constitution because Big , Fat ,Greedy Republicans advocate this ludicrous notion. One would think , if you're as ignorant e.g. low information as those low information people are, it would be Obama's fault.

Do you know what's so crazy? That is the majority of the clueless people protesting have medicare , a government run program her in America.


caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 11:58 AM


bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 12:10 PM

that's a very old video; At least Clinton tried. Bush took didn't.

felix
Felix  (Level: 109.3 - Posts: 2500)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 12:22 PM

I thought the name calling was to cease? BIg? Fat? Greedy? I am a Republican and proud of it. I do not appreicate you having to call names to make your point have some validity.

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 1:04 PM

Bigmama60
Well,Clevercloggs
If you take a look at the violence the Big , Fat ,Greedy Republicans are organizing and bussing the mass of low information people to talk about lynching, to make Death Threats, and to burn effigys. Big , Fat ,Greedy Republicans not are grassroots;. They are protecting they money through these ignorant puppets. Then there's Linda's posting her misunderstanding of our constitution because Big , Fat ,Greedy Republicans advocate this ludicrous notion. One would think , if you're as ignorant e.g. low information as those low information people are, it would be Obama's fault.

Do you know what's so crazy? That is the majority of the clueless people protesting have medicare , a government run program her in America.

I've made no secret of the fact that my sympathies lie with Obama / the Democrats. Kucinich would have got my vote of course, but as i said, a country gets the government it deserves.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 1:07 PM

Donna, Afghanistan is not centrally governable. No matter what, the strife will continue there for decades.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 1:07 PM

Donna, Afghanistan is not centrally governable and never has been.

No matter what, the strife will continue there for decades.

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 1:12 PM

Collioure
Donna, Afghanistan is not centrally governable and never has been.

No matter what, the strife will continue there for decades.

Of course you are right Coolio, i doubt i'll ever write that again. But is that how you would describe what is happening in Afghanistan if it were happening in your back yard, strife ? "The family got wiped out at a wedding last weekend, bloody strife."

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 1:13 PM

Felix I'm not calling you personally as a BIg? Fat? Greedy? Cat. I'm talking about people being ginned up by billion dollar insurance companies, lobbyists and the Republican National Committee using the small people to protect those Fat cat's money.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 1:20 PM

You might want to knock of the name-calling entirely, Beverly, makes you argument meaningless.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 1:25 PM

Dave, let me quote

"You are either with the terrorists, or you are with us."



smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 1:28 PM

Andy, show me where I said anything about governing Afghanistan, centrally or otherwise. Which word did you stop reading at?

If it's Sploofus time in France, it's nap time in North Florida.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 1:32 PM

"If Bush had gotten bin Laden when he had him cornered instead of shifting focus to a bogus personal war in Iraq, Afghanistan could've been over long ago, bin Laden might be dead, Al Queda and the Taliban broken, and 9/11 avenged, and Iraq need never have happened at all."

Donna, neither you or I will live long enough to see "Afghanistan over." It's hardly a country, it's not governable and there will be strife there between the various factions (Taliban included) for decades, no matter what we do.



smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 1:35 PM

It could've been over for us. Just because there will always be strife there doesn't mean we always have to be part of it.

I didn't say anything about governing Afghanistan, agreed?

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 1:40 PM

No,, it couldn't have been over for us. You have all these fighters spilling over the border from Pakistan. The Taliban doesn't go away. It just retreats into the hills to return another day to attack population centers. All that fol-de-rol by Bush at the outset there was just for show.

And you've bought into some liberal campaign spiel that sounds good but is quite faulty.

Afghanistan is a place where you keep bad things from happening. Nothing more.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 1:41 PM

I haven't "bought into" anything and you can get down off that big horse any minute now. You're on it the wrong way round anyway.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 1:46 PM

Yea, you did buy into it. You just quoted it verbatim. It was designed to say Iraq was the wrong war, Afghanistan the right one. We heard it for years. As I noted the other day, both wars or neither war might have been correct approach.

However, the idea that our troops could have tracked down ObL way back when seems a little far-fetched to begin with. No foreign troops have ever penetrated that region, and ours had zero experience there.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 1:50 PM

Linda

You might want to knock of the name-calling entirely, Beverly, makes you argument meaningless.
***********************************************************************************

Your arguments are meaningless plus you have suggested on several occasions for people to call you crazy, a shill, and even racist. Ple--e-e--e-as-e! You post everything negative and partisan you can find on the web that is anti- Obama and full of slurs.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 1:55 PM

Please link me to a verbatim quote of anything I've posted not clearly identified as such.

I'm making another attempt to talk to you, Andy. Please resist trying to take over both sides of the discussion.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 2:01 PM

Should I start calling him TOTUS again? Hated giving that one up but it turned folks off who might have listened to anthing I thought or had to say or FACTS or credible sources I cited just as your name-calling does. I do not like the direction OBAMA is taking our country. Believe because of his personal charisma and abilty to talk around the issues he could be dangerous. None of that is in any way a slur.

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 2:13 PM

Collioure
Dave, let me quote
"You are either with the terrorists, or you are with us."

Do you remember when Nelson Mandella was a terrorist ? To the Romans your Nazarine was a terrorist. Members of the Irish government were once terrorists, sponsored by the US. Who are "us" ?

felix
Felix  (Level: 109.3 - Posts: 2500)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 2:13 PM

Greedy is living on handouts and free crap from Uncle Sam. If you think that your words have been clarified as less insulting by disqualifing an individual as apposed the GOP as a whole does not wash. The GOP is indivuals and you insulted them all.

clevercloggs
Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 2:23 PM

It's good the that the greedy old party can be insulted as a whole. It hadn't occured to me that slime like that could be insulted at all.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 3:22 PM

Donna, when you talk about the possibility Afghanistan already being over, you lose all credibility.

Say, can you tell me what our increased troop levels there are expected to accomplish and what our exit strategy is?

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 3:25 PM

Gee, Andy, I'm all busted up about that. I had SO much credibility with you.

Did I mention increased troop strength? Did I say I was in favor of continuing the war now? I did not.

At least try to stick to disputing what I've actually said.

Thanks.

felix
Felix  (Level: 109.3 - Posts: 2500)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 3:26 PM

So we can start name calling again?

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 3:33 PM


Felix I believe you said ...
Greedy is living on handouts and free crap from Uncle Sam. If you think that your words have been clarified as less insulting by disqualifing an individual as apposed the GOP as a whole does not wash. The GOP is indivuals and you insulted them all.
****************************************************************************


Greedy is corporations and lobbyists our Representatives (Democratics and Republicans) who take your profits from tax dollars; then go retreats, have huge bonuses as a result of tax dollars for having done nothing apart from taking your hard earned money. Goldman Sachs profits, for instance, now have golden balls from your money.

People who live on handouts from hurricanes, floods, unemployment and other hardships are not greedy. Their existence is just a drop in the bucket in comparison to the golden balls the Fat Greedy Cats got.

Also most of those people accepting those handouts have put their money into the USA's treasury department. The Fat,Greedy, Cats send their money to offshore banks to avoid putting their money in our treasury.

The pendulum swings both ways , Felix, and I am not insulted since they are greedy fat cats.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 3:37 PM

"Say, can you tell me what our increased troop levels there are expected to accomplish and what our exit strategy is?"


Where have I heard that before? I know I have it here somewhere...gimme a minute.



smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 3:38 PM

Well, as a person who has seen times in my life when I fed my children with "free crap from Uncle Sam" I am insulted by being called greedy for merely wanting to survive and take care of my family at a time when life was being really tough on us.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 3:49 PM

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/story?id=8261754&page=1 you mean these greedy tone deaf idiots?

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 4:09 PM

http://channels.isp.netscape.com/pf/story.jsp?flok=FF-APO-1310&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20090804%2F1411876147.htm&sc=1310&floc=NI-mo3 Beverly you might want to check out GE. Their head guy is on Obama's economic counsel and they are set up bigtime to reap the benefits broker carbons and making "green ' things if cap and tax slides by the folks. Don't believe they paid taxes last year either. Just as a sidenote-they own MSNBC not that that is important

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 5:01 PM

You gotten my my point the pendulum swings both ways; Linda.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 5:16 PM

you make no sense-sorry

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 5:48 PM

Linda
What???

good and bad people are all over

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 5:52 PM

Yes, and one is on Obama's economic council.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 6:40 PM

Many are republicans are there too; I'll bet

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 7:15 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qegb6Csxaw I am talking about Jeffrey Immelt who is on Obama's eonomic team. I can post more if you doubt me. Just getting really tired of this president's elevation to sainthood He is a poitician and politicians by the nature of the election process are pretty much with few exceptoions corrupt

buchanan
Buchanan  (Level: 81.3 - Posts: 339)
Fri, 7th Aug '09 10:57 PM

smoke,i agree with you about bigmamma,"let her post any damn thing she wants just like anyone else.this is the view point police talking.buchanan

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 6:33 AM

Beverly surey can post whatever she wants.

A couple of more times and her silly list (which she doesn't understand) could be termed spam.

oldcougar
Oldcougar  (Level: 219.7 - Posts: 1935)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 7:32 AM

"We eat ham, and jam and Spam a lot"

Carry right on posting, Bev

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 7:34 AM

Andy, Andy, Andy. There are people who would have us seriously consider that the president is a baby-killing granny-snuffing Muslim Antichrist from Kenya, but you challenge Beverly's understanding of a few positive initiatives?

I think you need to turn your laser intelligence and razor wit on some of the truly reality-challenged.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 8:13 AM

Granny snuffing?

(pulling out pad and pencil, scratching head wondering how I missed that one)

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 8:14 AM

No no no, wrong again, Donna. I googled it. His Granny USED snuff.

Whole different thing.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 8:17 AM

Me thinks Smoke is just dying to get a response to her Palin post where she acted like her concern was for the children- RIGHT!!

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 8:17 AM



smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 8:25 AM

I didn't "act" like my concern was for the children, Palin did. If you have something to say about that thread, why don't you post it on that thread?

I never start political threads. The one time I do, and as many of yours as I've participated in, it's downright rude of you to avoid mine.

Then again, I totally understand not trying to defend her.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21598)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 8:34 AM



jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 8:57 AM

Donna, I have to say - I've NEVER seen anybody on this site post anything like that the president is a baby-killing granny-snuffing Muslim Antichrist from Kenya. Not one. I wonder why you keep bringing that up.

On the other hand, at least Andy is addressing something actually posted here.

If you keep posting your rant of what we others think about the president - you might ought to see what you can still get back what you paid for that crystal ball. And don't give up your day job.

If you're just talking about people 'out there' - why keep bringing it up here to people who have not said that?

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 8:58 AM

Yes, dear, I read your smile loud and clear as you know I do, just as I do when you slip out of character and lavishly praise the word puzzles before and after one of mine, making a point of remaining stoically silent when mine runs. So subtle. It wasn't only the kids learning their social behavior all those years ago on the playground. The funniest thing of all is that you imagine it bothers me. I sometimes laugh out loud at the consternation it will cause you when I come up for POTD.



smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 9:04 AM

Jank, do you deny that there are people here who may not be bold enough to say these things themselves, but give credence to the hatemongers who DO say them over our airwaves, day in and day out?

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 9:08 AM

I will be so bold to say that you are wildly punching out at .... nobody.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 9:11 AM

That's good news. Who are you punching at?

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 9:14 AM

Hunger, poverty, and ignorance - one rehearsal at a time.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 9:15 AM

Oh, cool, me too.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 9:15 AM

I didn't know you were a music teacher. That's good to know!

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 9:17 AM

More than one way to fight hunger, poverty and ignorance.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 9:19 AM

Oh - you didn't exclude "one rehearsal at a time" from your "me too." Sorry I misunderstood.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 9:23 AM

No, I don't do rehearsals. And to be clear, I'm not a music teacher, I can't read music, I don't play an instrument, but I can sing a bit on a good day, so in the music department you are far and way my superior in every way.

You must be some fabulous music teacher.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 9:29 AM

There are some worse, some better than I.

But let there be no doubt to anyone in these boards - you are an amazing and magnificent Word Puzzle writer. And you are so advanced in solving others' WPs that practically every day is a Smoke spotlight! I very much envy your intelligence and speed and brilliance in the puzzles.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 9:31 AM

Thanks, I know exactly how much you mean that, but the post you are responding to was not meant for you.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 9:36 AM

Oh, you little stinker!

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 9:41 AM

Love to stay and play, but it's low 90s here, a breezy and gorgeous today, I'm taking my doggies to the beach.

Everyone have a grand day!

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 9:50 AM

So back to the subject of the thread. This will be very useful information for future trivia questions!

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 2:17 PM

Donna, Beverly's list is full of fluff. If she would whittle it down the two or three positive initiatives and add in a few other accomplishments, I would salute it, but I never salute idiot cut-and-paste lists like that intended to impress with their length and not their quality.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 2:26 PM

And you see no middle ground anywhere between "saluting" and "crapping all over." Gotcha.



collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 2:31 PM

Oh, Donna, here's an article in the Times (UK) about Afghanistan. General Sir David Richards says the effort will take 30-40 years.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6788043.ece

BTW I just love being right about things. And I doubt I will live that long. Will you?

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 2:35 PM

If you ever are, let me know right away so I can celebrate your big moment with you.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 4:04 PM

Andy

You think I cut-and-paste idiot lists and that have no their quality?

Well, for substantive purposes, many people are not impressed with your eminent spams of NO. They sound very fishy.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 4:28 PM

To answer your question, Beverly.

Yes.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 5:16 PM

What happened to your usual response, Andy. You know the negative one. Oh, I get it you really mean no; again.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 5:47 PM

Beverly, why do you keep posting that silly list?

Do you not understand what it says about both you and about Obama when you list the acquisition of the puppy as an accomplishment?

Instead of fluff, put up some meat. Obama has some moderately worthy accomplishments in office already and he has launched some interesting initiatives, a couple of which are in your list.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 5:50 PM

I thought she listed the puppy (rather sweetly) as a promise kept.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 5:55 PM

Yeah, and you also thought that Afghanistan would be over by now if Bush hadn't gone into Iraq.

smoke
Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 6:14 PM

And you know it wouldn't. And those opinions are equally valid because neither of us knows what may have happened had Bush stayed the course while he was still on it.

Tora Bora was to Bush what being Governor of Alaska was to Sarah Palin: It was the highest point of positive accomplishment he ever knew, it might have been his finest moment, but he quit to pursue his own agenda. It has been said he didn't want to take bin Laden before he'd widened the "War on Terror" to Invade Iraq, so he stood down.

But that's as much of a speculation as the general's 20 or 30 years. None of us will ever know.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 6:21 PM

I think the military (Franks) made the call on Tora Bora, not Bush.

In any case we have weakened Al Qaeda over the years by numerous means and the Hellfire missile campaign is now taking out key Al Qaeda leaders in that mountainous wasteland where they are holed up, unable to effect much of anything worldwide any more. Thank you, President Bush and now President Obama.

sandracam
Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Sat, 8th Aug '09 6:30 PM

I hope that al Qaeda can be defeated, What they're doing to human, and especially women's rights is unbelievable. Remember when they destroyed those beautiful Buddhist monuments in 2001? Had a feeling then that they were bad news. Boy did they exceed that.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.8 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 9th Aug '09 4:13 AM

Well, Sandy, after Rumsfeld resigned we changed strategy and found the keys to defeating AQ in Iraq, cooperative efforts on numerous fronts worldwide have worked quite well, and we finally found a way to attack their hideaways and pick off their leaders in Waziristan. The schools in Pakistan which provide a steady stream of recruits rest the most difficult element today with the country up for grabs.

Obama is seeking a mega-solution in the Arab world. However, I doubt even if the stars somehow aligned to let it happen, would affect Al Qaeda's outlook.


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