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Salzypat  (Level: 154.3 - Posts: 5295)
Tue, 1st Sep '09 6:44 PM


What players do we have in California near the fires that have been burning for several days.? I know Westcoasttony is near there.

If you're in the area of the fires, please stop in and leave a message so we know if you are OK.

Bbear  (Level: 159.3 - Posts: 2301)
Tue, 1st Sep '09 7:20 PM

My dad and stepmom live in Claremont, one hour due east of LA. They are wearing masks while outside and keeping windows closed. Jim says it is so bad there is haze over Denver!!!

Pepperdoc  (Level: 152.5 - Posts: 4286)
Tue, 1st Sep '09 7:45 PM

My boss lives in the "bread basket" valley area between Bakersfield and Fresno. She's got asthma and she says air quality is really bad.

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Tue, 1st Sep '09 7:47 PM

Wow, I remember 6 years ago when there was that huge fire in Mexico, and it was hard to breathe in Fort Worth. I can't imagine what it's like within miles of the California fire.

Pepperdoc  (Level: 152.5 - Posts: 4286)
Tue, 1st Sep '09 7:50 PM

You probably aren't going to believe this, but...
when Mount St. Helen's erupted in Washington state, fine ash traveled via the jet stream and covered my car in North Texas. I went outside one morning and saw a fine covering of what looked like white dust and learned later it was the ash from the Mount St. Helen's eruption.

Oldcougar  (Level: 217.3 - Posts: 1935)
Tue, 1st Sep '09 8:57 PM

Mount St. Helens covered my car & everything else with ash, here on Vancouver Island, too. Must be terrible for those living nearby these huge fires, on so many levels.

Sargon  (Level: 111.2 - Posts: 1256)
Tue, 1st Sep '09 10:03 PM

Can't believe that some people refused to evacuate now firefighters have to risk their lives to rescue them.

Godwit  (Level: 78.1 - Posts: 435)
Wed, 2nd Sep '09 12:49 AM

Please don't be quick to judge. They may be invalid, they may have livestock or pets they cannot bring with them and won't leave, they may not have the money for a place to stay or gas or food, they don't have family anywhere near by or all their family live within the danger zone, they may have just bought their retirement home it's all they have and they are determined to stay and water it down and fight for it, they may have valuables they cannot remove which may very likely be vandalized....there are a lot of reasons why people don't evacuate. Besides sheer foolishness, which is also a reason for some. I know, being from New Orleans and watching what happened there, and how people elsewhere made judgments without knowing the facts. Look around your house...imagine filling just one bag with some things, and leaving your pets and garden and valuables knowing nothing is looking after them and they could be gone before you are able to get back. Imagine a family member who is diabetic and you don't know if you can get medicine on the road; imagine you lost everything in the stock crash last fall and you don't have a dollar extra to pay for the motel and gas and food for how long? What about your job? Evacuating isn't just going on vacation for a day or two. It's leaving behind everything you own, have worked for and need, except your family members, and leaving it all in the path of danger. It's taking your very elderly parent with you when moving an elderly person is just as likely to cause death as leaving them at home (moving them does cause injuries and death). There are so many considerations. So...people stay. Some manage to save their homes and pets.

As for putting rescuers in danger. I agree. It's a serious worry. However, it is also their job, to rescue. It's not our job to make sure they don't have to do their job. If so, we would have to pass a law for instance that all mountain climbers take along food and water and rescue devices (they are forever getting lost or hurt and then a rescue crew has to comb the mountain looking for them and that's dangerous and expensive). People who do skiing stunts, people who dive into caves, people who swim deep sea, people riding bulls, anyone driving while on a cell phone...on and on. They all put rescuers at risk.

Maybe those who don't evacuate but COULD...healthy, wealthy or whatever people...maybe they should waive their rights to rescue. It's a deeply sad and difficult situation, in any case. Maybe the strong neighbors of those people who are ill or old or poor or infants should have helped the less fortunate out of there and taken them in briefly. Maybe we should all be sending telegrams that we'll take in a family and/or we'll help them get to us. Like so many did after Hurricane Katrina. Canada took in an entire town of families....400 people. Fed them, gave them temporary citizenship, sent the kids to school, gave them homes to live in. I donno why US citizens never heard about that. I heard from my mom who lives up there.

All I'm saying is it's a much more complicated thing than what the media says, "it will endanger the firefighters."

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Wed, 2nd Sep '09 6:11 AM

I just have to disagree. There are always places to go when there are disasters. MANDATORY evacuation should not be ignored.

Churches and the Red Cross and probably others set up places for people to stay. It might not be their choice, but as opposed to dying or getting someone else killed just because?

Huh uh. No excuse.

Bobolicios  (Level: 116.8 - Posts: 1745)
Wed, 2nd Sep '09 7:55 PM

I was in Florida the summer of the fires. I was evacuated to a nearby county. It was terrible the smoke and the smell stays with you for a long time. Many people I knew lost their homes. That is also what happens when you build in the middle of peat bogs. I hope the fires burn out and there is a break in the weather but folks this happens every year. It is a natural occurrence in the life of forests and mountains. It is just we choose to build in areas that these natural disasters occur. Just like we like to build on the coast as if we can stop hurricanes.

Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Wed, 2nd Sep '09 8:00 PM

There are very few spots in America that are disaster-proof, and most of them are in places where I wouldn't want to live. Would freeze to death!

Asor  (Level: 153.4 - Posts: 589)
Wed, 2nd Sep '09 9:03 PM

Nicely put, Godwit. I seem to agree with both sides of the argument, but my heart goes out to those people who, for whatever reason, truly believe they cannot leave. My heart goes out to the rescuers, too! Those of us who would have the resources (not just financial, but also the security of friends and family, physical ability/endurance, understanding of what to do and where to go, etc.) to leave with little internal struggle are truly blessed.

Godwit  (Level: 78.1 - Posts: 435)
Thu, 3rd Sep '09 2:40 AM

Good points made. I like the notion that there are a lot of sides to this and that one can have feelings on either end.

I can mention that New Orleans is not on the coast. Far from it. Nor was it a hurricane that caused the disaster. The levees broke. The wetlands were destroyed. Both human-made problems.

In Katrina many disabled, blind, in wheelchairs, in hospitals, in nursing homes, etc. people died. They cannot go even a block. Sadly, more and more people are experiencing disasters first hand. And learning more compassion, because of it.

I guess some of the trouble is we are overcrowded, and so we're building in areas we shouldn't. My mom said there's an area called Disaster Point, near where she lives. It's always been empty of houses, and you can guess the reason! But recently developers went in and built a bunch of Condos, right there on Disaster Point. They are selling them to city people who live far away, as "luxury cottages" with a scenic view and so forth. Not mentioning the fact that no fool has built there in 30 years.

Anyway the thread is about concern for those near the fires. I have people in the area and as you mention, their attitude is that fires are part of life there. Is it not usually so many though, or so huge, or so close to downtown? Some blame the high temperatures (global warming) and not enough water.

Dyenamite  (Level: 49.6 - Posts: 669)
Thu, 3rd Sep '09 6:03 AM

My heart goes out to you all. None of us can wind back the clock. Prayers for all in disaster areas at all times in ALL the world

Bobolicios  (Level: 116.8 - Posts: 1745)
Thu, 3rd Sep '09 1:26 PM

Understand completely having lived in Florida for 15 years, sometimes I evacuated, sometimes I didn't. It just depended on funds, whether we had just been evacuated (happened twice) or we had enough time. However, I was not disabled or elderly or in a hospital or nursing home. Pets were also not an issue, although if I had them they would have gone with me. I never had to stay in a shelter which is also a factor in evacuating, I would not want to do that unless forced to (Hurricane Katrina). The problem there in many cases was poverty, people either didn't have a vehicle or had no where to go or no money to get there. I know it seems a token gesture but I actually sent money to hurricane Katrina victims.

Sargon  (Level: 111.2 - Posts: 1256)
Sat, 5th Sep '09 5:44 AM

In all the news reports I read people were staying behind to try and protect their homes with garden hoses.

California state government had thought about training people how to protect their property against wild fires like they do in Australia. The idea was abandoned when brush fires killed over 100 Aussies.

Dyenamite  (Level: 49.6 - Posts: 669)
Sun, 6th Sep '09 10:32 AM

And most of those brave (or silly) oz-tray-uns stayed to protect their homes and loved pets. Again ... thoughts with all in disaster, world-wide

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