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garrybl
Garrybl  (Level: 279.5 - Posts: 6639)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 12:25 PM

BECK TO THE FUTURE

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/09/16/beck_skousen/index2.html

I'd nerver heard of this guy but it makes interesting reading.

The left-wing liberal wikipedia gives this account:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleon_Skousen

An appropriate response to these articles would be to say
"but Obama XXX..... Nyah nyah".

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 1:06 PM


The article stated this about Skousen "His death in January 2006 was little noticed outside Mormon circles". Was that a typo for Glenn Beck and his moronic circles? Oh-h-h-h-h that's right he wears a tin foil, cone hat. Whoops,my mistake, let me page Dr. Jekyll.



Whadaya know he's in a black neighborhood looking for the next Black communist army
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onXd8iH3OVQ&feature=related

What? No he's not there ?Glenn is in the Rockefeller Museum; again Glenn Beck is still looking for commies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szlLM5lCNJg

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 1:42 PM

Sorry to hijack your thread, Barry

I'm in such a giddy mood have to share one more Glenn Beck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiLppliFzbs&NR=1

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 117.7 - Posts: 1745)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 3:43 PM

That was actually the first one I watched, my kids actually told me to come watch the clip on the computer. They already knew about him and had seen it. Apparently it is a popular you tube clip among the younger generation. So take that you right wing idiots. I read up on Becks inspiration the guy in the John Birch Society and I am not surprised. Whatever medication Beck is on is not working.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 3:47 PM

You guys need to change the channel and you might actually hear what is going on in the world not your own left cubicle

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 117.7 - Posts: 1745)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 3:49 PM

Same can be said for you woman, you have one channel and it is all the same. 100 channels and nothing on, and blah, blah, blah. You repeat yourself on here every day all day and nite if you stayed up.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 3:53 PM



bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 5:13 PM

LOL...I can't believe you asked us to change the channel. You never do. Truthfully, even if you did it wouldn't matter you're so brainwashed.
On second thought, do change the channel maybe you can be de-programmed.

It's a known Fact Fox is number 1. It doesn't mean more is not less By that I mean the Republican numbers are fewer nationwide. They in my opinion is the truth.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 5:21 PM

Here is a Beck video which talks about another Czar named Jones-very interesting biography. There is so much. Very difficult to pick the worst one/part http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_8qz-CD_r8

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 5:29 PM

Question" How can there be Capitalism without risk? Warch the controls on the financials.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 5:30 PM

In my Opinion , what is interestingly more important is who Van Jones is now. He is very bright, articulate, young man and force to be reckoned with. He won't stay down now that the shackles of Glenn Beck's delusion have been released; I'll bet.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 5:34 PM

You seem to be running on fumes, Beverly.

Van Jones is a truther - that makes him a bona fide wacko.



caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 5:35 PM

This was about a different Jones with a shady past. You are correct though. Vamnn is now free to resume his race-baiting raants. Since he is a friend of Valerie Jarrett doubt ties with Obama have been severed either. Just wonder why no one is holding Obama accountable for hiring these people.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 5:53 PM

Shady past? Worse than that.

Co-founder of the Weather underground. A violent radical.

Why are these people in this administration ??????

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 6:10 PM

There are a slew of them. THis is why Beck is so very unpopular in the Left elite circles as he is rooting them out.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 6:22 PM

Yup, Linda, no wonder our liberal friends here are attacking the messenger Beck. They don't like what he is uncovering.

Bill Ayers, Rev Wright, Van Jones and now Jeff Jones - pretty unsavory friends.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 6:33 PM

Yes, and there are many more.

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 117.7 - Posts: 1745)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 6:36 PM

Yeah that is why we are so against Beck because he is so all about the truth. I am not really sure I about Van Jones read a little about him. So now you are accusing the POTUS of what Andy? He can't be held accountable for every single advisor and what affilations they previously held. Come on now get serious, hey I am weary of this right now, just realize folks we are only what 9 months into his term. You folks are gonna run out of steam before it is over. He is the PRESIDENT you fools, what are you going to do coup d etat?

m48ortal
M48ortal  (Level: 251.1 - Posts: 3742)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 6:40 PM

Succinct assessment:

http://news.yahoo.com/comics/la-cucaracha
9-19-09

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 6:49 PM

Bobo, I think you need to do your own research into these characters before you even begin to criticize the concern of Beck, Jank, Linda, myself and others here.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 6:49 PM

Michael - LOL!

oldcougar
Oldcougar  (Level: 219.7 - Posts: 1935)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 7:26 PM

Canada apologizes for setting this man loose in the World

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 7:31 PM


bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 117.7 - Posts: 1745)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 10:40 PM

What is really scary is that you idolize that clown Beck like he was a god. Now that is SCARY.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 11:13 PM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8nyKHPzuDQ&channel=theyoungturks

Linda
I believe there should be a clown czar so he could Prohibt theclown, a.k.a. moronic, Glenn Beck from re -founding the US Constitution. US doesn't want crazy people signing legal documents.That is why it's illegal. Know your Rights !

Many people think every single person who works on the Glenn Beck show is retarded.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 11:35 PM

DEB

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sat, 19th Sep '09 11:58 PM

Yup, Linda, no wonder our liberal friends here are attacking the messenger Beck. They don't like what he is uncovering.

Bill Ayers, Rev Wright, Van Jones and now Jeff Jones - pretty unsavory friends.
***************************************************************************************************

You 3 blind mice wouldn't know Van Jones, Valerie Jarrett, Bill Ayers, Rev Wright if they trampled on you heads. You 3 blind mice have no inner vision or inner beauty . You are bad for this country.

My country full of tears

Land where my father died
Land where my father died



jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 12:14 AM

DEB

alvandy
Alvandy  (Level: 229.1 - Posts: 7560)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 2:01 AM

This thread gets an F

You guys were supposed to talk like a pirate! Get with the program.

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 2:54 AM

Glenn Beck is an entertainer who was given a budget for private detective work. Given the sizable budget he has to work with, proportionately speaking he has uncovered very little. We can only hope for a better use of community resources one day. I hope he begins to focus on entertainment less and on private detective work a little more (but then, where would his ratings be if he did?)

My opinion aside, did anyone catch the Time magazine article on this entertainer?
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1924348-1,00.html

Here are some soundbites:

"Beck describes his performances as "the fusion of entertainment and enlightenment" — and the entertainment comes first.".

"As melodrama, it's thumping good stuff. But as politics, it's sort of a train wreck — at once powerful, spellbinding and uncontrolled. Like William Jennings Bryan whipping up populist Democrats over moneyed interests or the John Birch Society brooding over fluoride, Beck mines the timeless theme of the corrupt Them thwarting a virtuous Us. ".

"The inevitable question is, How much of this industry is sincere? Last year, shortly after the election, Beck spoke with TIME's Kate Pickert, and he didn't sound very scared back then. Of Obama's early personnel decisions, he said, "I think so far he's chosen wisely." Of his feelings about the President: "I am not an Obama fan, but I am a fan of our country ... He is my President, and we must have him succeed. If he fails, we all fail." Of the Democratic Party: "I don't know personally a single Democrat who is a dope-smoking hippie that wants to turn us into Soviet Russia." Of the civic duty to trust: "We've got to pull together, because we are facing dark, dark times. I don't trust a single weasel in Washington. I don't care what party they're from. But unless we trust each other, we're not going to make it.".

What did you think of this article, especially the conclusion?

oldcougar
Oldcougar  (Level: 219.7 - Posts: 1935)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 3:44 AM

Interesting, especially the part about the number of viewers.

I found the quote of the day on the side interesting too.

"It means you're at mortal risk."

* DR. DAVID HIMMELSTEIN,
* associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School, on a study his team released this week that found that 45,000 deaths per year in the U.S. are associated with a lack of health insurance.


bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 117.7 - Posts: 1745)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 3:49 AM

My theory is most of his posturing is for ratings. He knows his audience well, I want to read the article because I am curious, he probably is scripted to behave as melodramatic as he appears. He plays up to people who like on the SD are unhappy about the present politics in Washington. They didn't vote for Obama and hate his stand on issues and anything to do with the democratic party platform. Mr. Beck is their champion and I can understand they want to believe they have a majority consensus, but they don't. However vocal and demonstrative they are they are still in the minority, we needed a change and Mr. Obama was elected. I can sympathize because I had to deal with 8 miserable years with that Bozo Bush.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 4:26 AM

I watched several more Beck clips at You-tube.

I suppose if one is an Obama sycophant, Beck's tone seems ridiculous. Hence the attacks upon the Messenger, Beck.

However, Beck's material leads us to consider whether Obama is a closet Marxist, and I'll have to review what's happened here in 8 months. That is a message that has not been addressed here.

Van Jones, Jeff Jones, Bill Ayers, Rev Wright and how many more ?

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 4:35 AM

Many more

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 4:40 AM

Andy: Whatever you think Andy, I wasn't attacking the messenger. He claims himself to be an entertainer, and clearly he has a budget for detective work. No attack the messenger there (unfortunately, I wish you had some other claim to make.....same old thing whether it's happening or not).

As we all know, it's not "always" wrong to attack the messenger, despite your repetitive one liner.

You claim Obama "may" be closet marxist.....you attack the messenger in a way you KNOW will work especially well in this country. You put words in his mouth, and give what amounts to a put down in this country. If it's not okay, why do you do it? If he's a "closet" marxist, that means ONLY he knows, and perhaps a few others he's told "possibly", so what can people do other than attack the messenger that has this "inside" knowledge (straight from Obama himself I'm sure)? This is a situation that requires trust, since we CAN'T know, only the messenger can. Of course, Beck i's only "guessing" himself, so there's not much to deal with there. There's no way to refute something that is "supposedly" inside someones head that no one else has access to.

Scare tactics? Marxism inside someone's head? Until you have a smoking gun, or something more substantial than the guess work of Beck, please work on partisanship here, like Beck used to say it's good for the country.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 4:43 AM

Van Jones was good for the country? Not MY country. Take a close look at the others. You can Google most of them.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 4:45 AM

I was speaking generally of the opposition to Beck here.

However, do you understand what being a closet Marxist is, Jeremy? That would mean that without revealing himself he would be seeking to bring down capitalism in this country - in favor of a system that has impoverished way too many nations already.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 7:56 AM

Bobo - much as you and I are on opposite ends of the political spectrum, I really admire and respect your last post. It was respectful and clear without hate words or buzz word, insults, or emotional buttons. Therefore, it carries great strength. Good on ya!

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 9:57 AM

Jan
Bobo - much as you and I are on opposite ends of the political spectrum, I really admire and respect your last post. It was respectful and clear without hate words or buzz word, insults, or emotional buttons. Therefore, it carries great strength. Good on ya!
**************************************************************************************************************************
Bobo said....
I can sympathize because I had to deal with 8 miserable years with that Bozo Bush.
************************************************************************************************************

Jan
I don't think trying to marginalize what I and others think of Glenn Beck and George Bush is good discourse by pandering to her . It's so full of innuendo. I think you should critize the persons you disagree with; but not by hiding behind someone else.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 10:10 AM

DEB

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 10:12 AM

I don't know what DEB means

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 10:21 AM

Don't even bother

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 10:24 AM

LOL! You're my new best friend - AGAIN, Coll!!!

felix
Felix  (Level: 109.3 - Posts: 2500)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 10:25 AM

I guess we are going to get off much easier, only have to deal with BO for one term. Remember most every day BO Stinks. Have a great Sunday.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 10:42 AM

I couldn't believe my ears this AM, Felix.

Some correspondent on the BBC stated that Obama was well on his way to a 2nd term.

The way things are going Hillary is going to take the next nomination from him.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 10:43 AM

My new best friend too, Jank,. Go ANDY!

felix
Felix  (Level: 109.3 - Posts: 2500)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 10:44 AM

It is sad when someone as out of touch as Hillary is a viable option.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 12:28 PM

Seems like the majority of the America's likely voters stand with Joe Wilson http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 1:06 PM

An argumentum ad populum (Latin: "appeal to the people"), in logic, is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or all people believe it; it alleges, "If many believe so, it is so."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

In other words, Obama may or may not be making people happy, he may or may not get re-relected, we'll wait and see, but one thing we do know is that whether the country approves of his decisions or not, he could very well be making the best decisions of any president in history, whatever the "many believe" to be the case about it. Posting a Rasmussen poll tells me nothing about what kind of job he is doing. Isn't that what matters here, (at least to folks like me), good decisions, and not what 50% of America thinks?

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 1:19 PM

You have a valid point, Jeremy.

Just not in this case.

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 1:24 PM

I have no idea what you are saying as usual Andy, but it made me laugh all the same......it seems that Linda would be the one to post whether I have a valid point in this case, since it was a reaction to her post, and not you. Only she would know the "intentions" behind her post, unless you are now claiming mind reading as one of your magical skills....... Leave it to Andy to speak for other people....in this case "Linda", on the Carter thread I just read.....well, I'll save that for another day. G'day to you Andy! (tips his hat).



collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 1:32 PM

Jeremy, he hasn't acknowledged his loss of popularity and continued to say he's doing what the thinks is right for the nation. He knows he's trying to enact the wishes of his far left wing. He knows that he has tried to develop health care on one side of the aisle.

His approach is very partisan and for that reason you can't rationally say it's in the nation's interest.

I have never even heard him say once tha

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 1:32 PM

Jeremy, he hasn't acknowledged his loss of popularity and continued to say he's doing what the thinks is right for the nation. He knows he's trying to enact the wishes of his far left wing. He knows that he has tried to develop health care on one side of the aisle.

His approach is very partisan and for that reason you can't rationally say it's in the nation's best interest.

I have never even heard him say once that he wants to be President of all the people.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 1:44 PM

IMO, Rasmussen's polls are notable for their use of automated public opinion polling, involving pre-recorded telephone inquiries. Yet, you rely on a robot to give a critical analysis. If they didn't employ the push call who did they poll their premium Republican members.

Source: Polloster.com... "Our baseline targets are established based upon separate survey interviews with a sample of adults nationwide completed during the preceding three months (a total of 45,000 interviews) and targets are updated monthly. Currently, the baseline targets for the adult population are 37.7% Democrats, 32.7% Republicans, and 29.6% unaffiliated. Likely voter samples typically show a slightly smaller advantage for the Democrats."

"Over the past five years, the number of Democrats in the country has increased while the number of Republicans has decreased".

"Until there is more information about their methods and a longer track record to evaluate their results," he wrote, "we shouldn't confuse the work they do with scientific surveys, and it shouldn't be called polling."

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/can_i_trust_this_poll_part_i.php

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 1:45 PM

Oh come on, the health care reform was watered down for republicans, but it doesn't suit them to be partisan right now, it doesn't fit into the "we'll stop the socialists" myth the right is creating. The Corrupt them vs. a Virtuous you campaign. If the repubs back down now on anything that comes out of Washington on health care, their whole "myth" gets destroyed which is one of the only things reviving interest in their party currently about "us stopping the socialists/commies" and they run the risk of not wining the next election. Wasn't the Baucus concession a partisan move? Core democrats are angry about the new plan. I don't agree with this new plan. I do agree with Obama's statement, ""Well, part of it is ... that the opposition has made a decision," he said. "They are just not going to support anything, for political reasons.".

Andy, do me a favor. If you are going to reply, do not be condescending. If you disagree, state your "reasons" for doing so (misinformation on my part, fallacious reasoning, etc.) and things will run smoothly between us. I'm here to learn, and not to argue or "win" something. That's the only way to get me to change my opinion on something.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 1:47 PM

Rasmussen is about the most respected poller out there. Obama is not doing what the majority of likely voters want thus he is not doing a goood job. Of course there are those like that radical Moyers who say that the people are stupid and just go ahead and give them what they need even if they don't want it. I do hope you do not stand with Moyers, Jeremy. Believe although not speaking for Andy he might have been addressing the poll numbers since that was the basic thing I posted.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 1:53 PM

Gave you a good answer, straight up and not condescending, Jeremy.

Unfortunately you may be of a hopeful cheerleader than an objective observer.

The Republicans have ZERO INPUT on health care.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 1:57 PM

Did watch the president on "Meet the Press" this morning, Andy? if you didn't you can go to the MSNBC website and read the transcripts or watch the video. It appears your assessment of the President is in alignment with the bold faces lies Republicans Boehner and Lindsey Graham once again uttered.

The President has overreached and these two clowns insist on continuing to lie. I'll bet their numbers were in that Rasmseen polls.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 1:57 PM

Republicans cannot and do not control anything. The fight is within te Democratic Party. The unions hate the Bauchus plan because it will effect their great packages.. The public opton whatever you call it will in time rumn out the private insures-government can undercut anything privaate because they can tax,regulate, and if needed print money. No serious tort reform in anything. Obama talked over George on ABC. Any plan which covers more people without dramitcaly increasing the number of doctors wil ration even if you don't call them death panels. Also someone9s0 has to pay. He has been far from truthful and people don't believe what he says about just about anything.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 1:59 PM

DEB

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 2:02 PM

Beverly, I saw part of John King's interview. Most telling moment. When King asked why we don't have a strategy in Afghanistan after 8 months.

Will see MTP tomorrow. Watching da Bears while taping MTP.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 2:15 PM

The Republicans have ZERO INPUT on health care.
***************************************************************************************
If you can acknowledge that fact, how do explain your dissatisfaction with the President since pretty much that is the crux of the problem. BTW: the Republicans have ZERO INPUT on any of the President's agenda and have said they want him to fail. I can't understand any party having such a vehement opposition to any President at such a crucial time in our nation.
I can understand robust debate with input. But these republicans have drawn a line in a sand and refuse to cross over. Convexly, they do support the Afghanistan troop increase of more troops. Of, course, I'm not surprised since they love War


bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 2:16 PM

Go bears

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 2:21 PM

CNN Poll of Polls: Obama approval holding steady
Posted: September 18th, 2009 12:08 PM ET

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/18/cnn-poll-of-polls-obama-approval-holding-steady/

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 2:21 PM

True Andy, your response was very good, and not condescending, I agree. Old fears is all....

The cheerleader comment may have been a bit of attack the messenger, hard to say, but even if it was I'll let it slide as I don't always think it's wrong to do that anyways. If that's what I am......it's not wrong to say so. Good use of the word "may".

I didn't state that Republicans had input, but that the democrats made concessions, which is how I read it reported from the right and left media sources the day Baucus' plan was released. Whether I could find those sources now I don't know.....but here's one from a very easy google search....but I'm too tired today for homework.

Here's a few snippets:

"A political moderate by instinct, Baucus made concession after concession in bipartisan talks that stretched on for months.".

"Other concessions Baucus made — more baffling to fellow Democrats — were part of a monthslong courtship designed to attract support from Republicans."".

"Sen. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the party leader, worked for months to dissuade fellow Republicans from reaching across party lines. Having succeeded, he accused Baucus of authoring a "partisan proposal" that would raise taxes and reduce Medicare spending."

"While Democrats demanded changes, Baucus projected confidence."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5huzSeqWGjSiQWWdFl_X2w-EoSPpQD9APAQLO0


smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 2:27 PM

Here's one from The Economist talking about the new "moderate" bill: http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14460378

Snippet: "After intense bipartisan negotiations, Mr Baucus (pictured) unveiled his bill on September 16th.".

Another: http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/HealthPolicy/15996

"In an important step toward moving healthcare reform legislation through Congress, Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) introduced his much-awaited bill today after months of working to gain bipartisan support.".

If you want to search for more, I googled baucus, health care, and concession looking for the various articles I had read.



collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 2:28 PM

I don't know what Baucus did or didn't do, Jeremy. In the end he had none of the three moderate Republicans on board. Tort reform, a must for Republicans I imagine, has always been off the table.

If you want to think this is a bipartisan plan, go ahead and think that, Jeremy.

I don't. I think it will be rather unbalanced with a focus on taking over health care without the necessary financial resources and without attacking all the kinds of waste in the present system. If the objective were to cover the uninsured, we would be seeing something less expensive and less cumbersome.

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 2:37 PM

Hmmm....well, I don't like this plan much either, it seems the concessions were wasted on the party. I would be happy if Medicaid were just expanded for the very poor or something, along with some of the suggestions you made or some other plan like Allena's maybe. For me it wouldn't need to be "single payer", though I wouldn't be as angry about it if it were as others seem to be.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 2:37 PM

George had the audacity toi confront Obama with a dictionary definition. How dare he? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/20/obama-stephanopoulos-spar-definition-tax/

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 3:22 PM

Moreover, Jeremy, they started with a totally partisan plan. Hard to believe it is not bipartisan if not even a moderate Republican can support it.

And don't put me in the camp with the Republicans. Other than tort reform a

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 3:46 PM

Max Baccus' plan and a whistle blower Wendall Potter, in my opinion, was never meant to be reasonable. It was meant to continue his contributions from the money he received from the Insurance lobbyist. Plus, Max Baccus didn't write the "Super Max" Giveaway Plan; the Insurance Industry did. The Republicans and Blue Dogs could have given this plan before the August Break. It was their intention to allow Dick Armey, Rick Scott, the Lewin Group and United Health Care, (I believe it is the largest monopoly), to orchestrate these town hall debacles to confuse people under the guise of socialism, the 1st and 2nd amendments etc.
Republicans and Rush Limbaugh have said they want the President to fail; ; so they lie and confuse the low information populace via Glenn Beck and Fox News. This "take back my country" is so laughable to me. What have they lost anymore now that they did not under the last 8 years.The President is supposed to fix it in 3 seconds with a Magic wand. Despite the slight improvement in the economy, they still will not give recognition. Low information voters have /are being influenced with false hopes and divisive rhetoric. Senator Demitt has called this stall tactic Obama's Waterloo.

I posted in another tread the legislators who are in the pockets in of Wall Street investors. I included the link and a video so you can hear it. I wonder if this Whistle blower gets death threats?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/15/wendell-potter-public-opt_n_287733.html

To hear more about Wendell Potter and his disclosure I have included the link I discovered and had posted in the other thread a while back .
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html





bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 3:51 PM

Typo correction: Max Baccus' plan, in my opinion , and a whistle blower Wendall Potter was never meant to be reasonable.

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 4:24 PM

Andy, about Baucus's plan:

"Other concessions Baucus made — more baffling to fellow Democrats — were part of a monthslong courtship designed to attract support from Republicans. So far, he has none, although Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine is widely believed ready to sign on in the near future.".

So I guess there's about to be one repub?

Beverly: I think it's pretty well known Baucus is in the pocket of the health insurance industry right now. I disagree with a few things you said......but leaving now, have to get back to them later. ciao.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 4:27 PM

No, Jeremy, Snowe opted out a week ago.

A few crumbs to a moderate a balanced, bipartisan bill does not make.

Please stop trying to stretch.

Partisan approach all the way.

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 4:35 PM

You're going to lose me if you keep trying to "characterize" me as someone who is trying to do much of anything. That was reported in the media two days ago, if I'm misinformed unlike yourself so is the reporter my friend. I don't have a direct hotline to the Republican's every move that would keep me informed as you should know. I rely on the media, perhaps you could have her give me a call?

Here is the source: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5huzSeqWGjSiQWWdFl_X2w-EoSPpQD9APAQLO0

I'm sorry you think I'm trying to stretch facts, (with intent!) If there is an error in there, it's genuine and I'm not trying to "stretch" anything.

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 4:37 PM

Anyway, next topic, I'm here to learn new things. If our exchange doesn't produce new knowledge or understanding it's a waste of my time.......

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 4:56 PM

What do you want the President to do; Andy? How many times has the republican reached out only to hear No, In this case it's no longer compromise for the sake of political football. Americans are ill and dying. If not now, then when? We've been waiting for is 50 or 60 years; I believe.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 4:57 PM

Jeremy, it seems to me that you are trying to give Obama the benefit of the doubt here. This began as a very partisan process - and you and Baucus can put lipstick on this pig, but it's still a pig because key components to any health care reform remain off the table. OK?

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 5:01 PM

Typo correction: How many times has the President reached out to the Republicans to hear No. They put together their resolutions and then voted against their resolutions.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 5:04 PM

ZERO, Beverly

He said he didn't need their input in April.

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 6:34 PM

Ah, I give Obama the benefit partially because I give people I don't know the benefit of the doubt "generally" and wait for them to lose my trust. Obama's no different. It has it's advantages and disadvantages.......You seem to be more distrustful of people generally than I am. What accounts for those differences? Different views on human nature (if there is such a thing), disposition, bad experiences? I don't know, but you seem to think I'm up to no good at times and honestly it's not warranted and it drives me crazy.

But the other part of it is that I don't think Obama is really that stupid. I haven't met hardly any democrats in person or on chat boards (and yes I've been to quite a few) that think this healthcare thing will pass without the partisan approach. No one I have met is really that optimistic. I think experience so far tells us the same. Obama went to Harvard.....hello he's not that stupid!!! Is he the only one that doesn't get it? Really? I think the more likely explanation is that there is an attempt at partisanship, in part on both sides......but there is self-interest involved in this as well. Just a thought.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 6:39 PM

Oh, pullleeeeeeze, Jeremy. He started lying about this months ago. No more, please.

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 6:41 PM

No more what? If you mean discussion, I'd be happy to oblige. Take care Andy.

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 117.7 - Posts: 1745)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 8:04 PM

I want to speak to a post Andy made earlier that Obama has not commented on his ratings slip. That is good on him, he is doing what he feels is best and not pandering to the polls that are way to early to tell. All POTUS have slipped in approval rating after being elected. I think he should stay the course, that is why he was elected. He should not give any credence to his critics and continue to work for compromise on his health care reform. Kudos to him for not letting the approval ratings get in his way.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 8:08 PM

It is okay then to ignore the fact the the majority of the people think the health care proposals out there SUCK??

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 117.7 - Posts: 1745)
Sun, 20th Sep '09 8:19 PM

He lied Andy oh you PLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAZSE. Why are you continually condescending and insulting to Jeremy. If I were him I would say DEB as you and pals are always saying. It is in everyone's best interest to work together on this bill. With or without the republicans some form of health care reform will be voted into law IN HIS TERM. You can bet your sweet a-- on that one. Why can't you people let the man do the job he was elected to do and see how it plays out. I am a democrat and I was forced to put up with 8 years of b---s---. You people are foaming at the mouth at 9 months in, health care reform was one of the platforms in ran on did you think he would abandon it once elected. Thwartiing him at every turn is not the answer they need to adopt a bill they can compromise on and move on.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 3:52 AM

Bobo, you're mistaken on a couple of counts.

1. Jeremy? Doesn't take yes for an answer. There's always one more "what if." It's exasperating. In this case he still wants to give the benefit of the doubt to a proven liar.

2. I'm not sure anything is going to happen on health care because Obama's flawed partisan approach has soured too many voters now. He has lost the people's trust.

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 4:26 AM

Bobo, unless you're a conservative/republican, it's very difficult to get along with along with Andy. I've never seen anybody pull it off, not even Mr. Tim and he was pretty even tempered. I made the mistake of talking to him again, I guess I forgot what it was like. Don't worry about me, when it comes to Andy.......

I jump in and try to defend the libs when I can because they are underrepresented on these boards......and I pay the price.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 4:30 AM

Jeremy, it isn't one side vs the other.

It's a matter of exchanging views and sifting though the facts to find the truths.

"I jump in and try to defend the libs when I can" says it all, doesn't it?

You're a partisan. I'm not.

smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 4:36 AM

Andy, have the last word, it's all yours.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 4:05 AM

Now that I have seen a list of all the czars, I have to agree with those who kind Beck's wild-eyed rants way over the top. Many of the czars are top-notch. I just hope more wackos don't show up in Obama's circle of friends and associates because there is at least a small radical chic element there.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 5:39 AM

Have you loked at Cass Sustein and the Diversity guy eho bases visioin on Argentina-forgotten his name.,. Beck ties in AVCORN, SEIU, and the APOLLO Alliance well. Believe it was Ravenesklaw that noted Beck's presentation is often over the top but he is looking for thee substance of Corruption in the Obama Administration. The cunning part is there are responsible people mixed in with the whackos

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 12:26 PM

Beck ties in AVCORN, SEIU, and the APOLLO Alliance well. Believe it was Ravenesklaw that noted Beck's presentation is often over the top but he is looking for thee substance of Corruption in the Obama Administration. The cunning part is there are responsible people mixed in with the whackos
***************************************************************************************
Yes. they are over the top and totally unrelated to the present.

Jeremy, I appreciate your comments as they are carefully thought out and provoke interesting and rational thought. Keep them coming.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.7 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 1:26 PM

Linda, all the czars are not like Van Jones. George Mitchell, Dennis Ross and Richard Holbrooke are superb diplomats - and czars. Beck has cherry picked the wackos and there are surely a few.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.2 - Posts: 21596)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 1:55 PM

Yes, he has but even a few are way too many


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