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caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 3:57 AM

BET HE WISHES HE COULD THINK ABOUT THIS ONE INDEFFINITELY

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/20/AR2009092002920.html?hpid=topnews not going to sit well which way he jumps off the fence. If he takes his militaruy adviseers advoce he just might neeed the Republicaan votes he has been shunning for months on the health care thing and even some of them want to get out-interesting

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.9 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 4:28 AM

The title of this article in the Washington Post is

"More Forces or 'Mission Failure'"

but what is the mission in Afghanistan ????

. . . shades of LBJ

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 5:51 AM

Those jumping off the fence are the Republicans. For once, of course, they are in accord with the President instead of just saying "NO"I. I'm not surprised as the neo-cons love War. Look at all the money the warmongers of the Republican party can benefit from in the Military Industrial Compound.

The goal as I see it should be to withdraw just like Russia did.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.9 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 6:06 AM

The problem, Beverly, is that under Obama we don't have any goals enunciated.

Bush obviously sought to keep the lid on matters. The Taliban was gaining the upper hand as he left office, but that's going to happen again and again there. The idea that we can stand up an Afghan army to defend against the Taliban is happy talk.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 7:20 AM

This one is difererrrent than health care. Here he MUST have HIS plan ot toss in the towel. He is the one who said this was the "Proper'War" How does he like that statement now?

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 7:30 AM


bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 8:06 AM

It was the Proper War which Bush chose not to pursue because Cheney had in his desk drawer the blueprint from the 1st Bush, probably. Cheney was salivating for his Haliburton and Bush's cronies of war profiteers to exploit and confuse the issues. So at the time the President was correct. That Afghanistan thing is one campaign promise that I don't mind not being fulfilled.

Even Genghis Khan couldn't win in Afghanistan.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 9:14 AM

Russia got its Butt kicked which looks like the Obama "stratedgy".-call it an "exit" one if it pleases you. Afghanistan is now and has always been an imposssible place to fight and win anything as it is a fractured country. He can talk about duplicting what happened in Iraq withe those in iraq taking over the policing and governing but not going to happen in Afghanistan. IMO he will let ny gains that were made in Iraq lapse as well

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.9 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 2:15 PM

If it was the proper war, Beverly, and I don't agree that it was (or is), we will soon see a strategy to win it. I think the choice to knock out Saddam, suck Al Qaeda onto a battlefield favorable to us in Iraq where they lost and to establish a democracy there was wise.

I just didn't understand the rush earlier this year to send troops to Afghanistan without a strategy. Now maybe they just wanted to cool the place off a bit before making a longer range assessment. FYI a British general said it would take 40 years to win there.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 2:23 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/21/mcchrystal-failure-forces-afghanistan/ this looks like a huge stall for time perhaps so he can ram health care through against the will of the peopple. It is an incremental slow bleed approach. Either do what his miltary guys want or fire them. George Will the right-wing guy said a couple of weeks ago to ue the drones as get the troops out of there. If they do not consider the enemy in Pakistan where they cannot go and Afghanistan one enemy making any progress on getting the Taliban or other terrorist groups a no-go too

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 2:32 PM

Word out now that report has been sitting on Obama's desk since August 30th. It probably was leaked because someone thought he ought to deal with it. Charles Krauthammer is of the opinion that Obama hasn't because he is clueless as to what to do. As usual-Charles makes sense

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 3:26 PM

Charles Krauthammer is of the opinion that Obama hasn't because he is clueless as to what to do. As usual-Charles makes sense.
****************************************************************************************************************************************
What???? Charles Krauthammer makes no sense usually; just scorn. However, in this case it doesn't matter as an overwhelming majority of Americans want out of both wars.
As usual, Krauthammer is full of it with his dog whistle calls as most of American can't/won't listen to Krauthammer's hi-tech lynching attacks to disenfranchise the President.

That's why you need to pay attention to that little box (RCP President approval ratings) in the corner of your LOL Fox New alerts


collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.9 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 3:30 PM

In foreign affairs Krauthammer makes few errors.

Report sitting on Barack's desk for three weeks. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . .

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 3:46 PM

Blue print seating in Dick Cheney's drawer for the Iraqi invasion since Bush I; probably. Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm. Talk to me,baby

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.9 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 3:52 PM

Irrelevant, Beverly.

goddess28
Goddess28  (Level: 92.6 - Posts: 5236)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 4:04 PM

*sweep, sweep, sweep*

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.4 - Posts: 1745)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 6:49 PM

The goal is, what is the goal? Come on Andy I just saw interview on MacNeil Lehrer report with Hillary. Obama is not commiting to any additonal troops until after election in Afghan. They want to have a long term strategy before they bring in additional forces. Which is more than I can say for that idiot we had previously who just invaded a country for no reason.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 6:55 PM

He has even a bigger problem now as charges of corruption have been brought against the winner of the election that he would be supporting

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.4 - Posts: 1745)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 8:19 PM

At least he is weighing all options before committing more US troops which is more than I can say for his previous administration. Why is it you conservatives were all for aggression when GW was in the white house. However, now that Obama is in all of a sudden you turn from hawks to doves. That is a bit of hypocracy don't you think?

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 8:23 PM

People believe and most likely are correct that this is another Vietnam that Obama by his big mouth touting it as the "proper war" got us involved in

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.4 - Posts: 1745)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 8:27 PM

Proper meaning that it is the stong hold of Al Quada, not Iraq. Does anyone need a lesson in geography. No, he doesn't want it to become Vietnam. It is interesting that some of you folks were probably for the war in Nam. I really believe he will make the right decision. He has not committed to more troops has he? No he hasn't.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 8:39 PM

The people that mean us harm go back and forth between Pakistan and Afghanistan. He sends drone strikes but has no jurisdiction to send troops there. If you go back toi Obama's March speech he said Afghanistan was the war we must win. Haven't a clue what he will do but unless he wants to kill the troops there now (has already sent in the thousands) he must either send more for the surge that the head guy there wants and hopes will work or get our troops out of there. He must get off the fence soon.

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.4 - Posts: 1745)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 8:41 PM

I totally agree.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Mon, 21st Sep '09 8:43 PM

Obama has increased the number of troops in Afghanistan since becoming president - soon after his inauguration.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-afghan-troops18-2009feb18,0,1590275.story

"Obama orders more troops to Afghanistan

The deployment, to total 17,000 soldiers and Marines, will double the number of U.S. combat brigades at a time of tension with Afghanistan's weak government over civilian casualties."

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.9 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 3:42 AM

Yes, Bobo, as Jank noted Obama sent more troops to afghanistan right away.

surreyman
Surreyman  (Level: 260.9 - Posts: 2770)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 5:01 AM

Collioure:

Iraq is an episode with which I was quite directly involved until recently.
Please show me Bush's plan to 'suck in Qaida' - one that was published pre-Invasion, of course.
That didn't exist, to save you the trouble. It was a post-Invasion spin to 'explain' the mess that followed. Indeed, Bush always claimed (wrongly) that Qaida was already there in force.
But I do tend to agree with you re Afghanistan - we Brits had three official 19th./20th. century Anglo-Afghan wars plus many 'skirmishes', some were total disasters, and any successes were relatively short-lived.
The Russians should have learned from us, and we should learn today!


collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.9 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 5:29 AM

Alan, we don't know what the full plan was, but we certainly could have predicted the opposition to any effort to establish a democracy there. I don't think these folks were as clueless as you would like to conclude.

By the same token Obama hasn't given us his plan for Afghanistan either. There might be more to it than meets the eye as werll.

surreyman
Surreyman  (Level: 260.9 - Posts: 2770)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 5:40 AM

Maybe not clueless although there was an element of that, in that so much good advice was blatantly ignored. - more blinded by a need to gain an apparently easy victory and an apparent (but totally false) 'revenge' for 9/11. Just read Bush's pre-Invasion spiels.
And read the 'Mission Accomplished' era speeches. There was no view of the hard times to come, more of an expected enthusiastic welcome.
Then came the problems and the continual spin, which seems to be continued now.
This isn't opinion, it's good old retrospective fact, fully documented.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.9 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 5:47 AM

Alan, WMD was not the primary objective, I assure you. There was much more to it. They fouled up the aftermath and as a result may lose it all, but it was worth a try to begin to nudge the Arab world in a different direction.

Don't forget. After 9-11 there was a complete reassessment of our policies in the Arab world and some pivotal changes ensued.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 11:49 AM


What gives any nation the right to determine or impose its values on another?

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.9 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 1:31 PM

Who's supposed to stop a megalomaniac who murders his own people and threatens his neighbors?

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 2:00 PM

If they let it happen to themselves do they deserve it? The original mission was to rid the country of WMDS; A great Right Lie. Then when the discovery revealed there weren't any. Bush shifted the focus to Sadeem who had no connection to Bin Laden. Meanwhile Bin Laden, the real threat to America was hanging out in caves; probably RMOFWL.

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.9 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 2:02 PM

WMD's was the cover story, Beverly.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 2:17 PM

And a huge lie, Andy

collioure
Collioure  (Level: 104.9 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 2:20 PM

Nope. Much larger intent than that.

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 2:30 PM

Word now that the "leak' is hurting Obama as it is said the he asked the head guy there to delay the request. Word is the request will be made probably tomorrow then we will see if he listens to this guy who he picked. Even a Fox poll said 50% of the people don't want more troops sent but over half suuport the effort there. There are no 'for sures" here but the head guy said that although he is not sure that we will be successful in containing the Taliban with a surge , he is SURE tht alll is lost if he doesn't get more troops-tough call.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 2:59 PM

A point well taken, Linda. Those resources can be spent much better in the US. and many lives wil be spared on both sides But why what Fox want to politicize this.


FYI: FoX Lied...
Obama's Approval Rating Holds Steady
CNN
posted: 1 DAY 5 HOURS AGO


WASHINGTON (Sept. 20) – President Barack Obama's approval rating is holding steady in the mid-50's, according to a new CNN Poll of Polls.
Fifty-five percent of Americans approve of how Obama's handling his duties in the White House, according to the CNN Poll of Polls, which averaged the six national surveys taken since the president addressed a joint session of Congress on September 9. Thirty-nine percent, on average, disapprove.
Last night I heard that whiny, stupid, strident, Sean Hannity say... Obama's poll numbers are dropping. I guess he mis-read his teleprompter or wasn't listening to his earpiece.




caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 3:10 PM

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll pick your poll. Fox isn't politicizing-just reporting on the news that Obama is in a bind and he is

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 3:11 PM

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/09/22/wsjnbc-news-poll-on-obama-exposure-too-much-too-little-or-just-right/

Once again FOX NATION IS distorting instead of reporting. Glen Beck gave me the impression people are tired of looking at the President. Well it seems that some think they haven't seen enough. The President should be ever so more ubiquitous as this is the time he really needs to combat FOX lies, in my opinion.

With President Obama appearing on five Sunday-morning news programs and with him sitting down with David Letterman last night, the political chattering class has asked this question: Is Obama overexposed?
According to a new NBC/WSJ poll, the answer is mostly no -- although it depends on whether you're a Democrat or Republican.
In the poll, 34% say they see and hear Obama too much, 9% say they see/hear him too little, and 54% say it's the right amount.
Among McCain voters, however, 63% say they're seeing too much of the president. That's compared with only 8% of Obama voters who say that.
Among independents, 52% say Obama's exposure is the right amount, versus 40% who say it's too much.


caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 3:15 PM

Not quite sure how CNN can poll as they have so few viewers Fox got the news correct http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/22/commander-request-thousands-troops-afghanistan-early-wednesday/ Obama's call now

bobolicios
Bobolicios  (Level: 118.4 - Posts: 1745)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 3:19 PM

Who cares?

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 3:26 PM

Probably-just guessing- the troops

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 3:33 PM

I certainly won't interpret a Frank Luntz or Rasmussen as a true sample of America.

Your Rasmussen Poll says...
Tuesday shows that 31% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty-nine percent (39%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 31% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty-nine percent (39%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama Approval Index rating of -8


RCP (RealClearPolitics) is a poll that has an Average of other polls. This is the spread I pay attention to. You can't get any clearer than that.


Date 9/10 - 9/21 Approve 53.6 Disapprove 40.7 Spread+12.9

I prefer a + instead of a -

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 3:42 PM

Are you ignoring the troop increase request which puts Obama in a real bind, Beverly? Dunno looks like you are

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 3:51 PM

Let put it's this way the only poll that really counts is the 1 Since extreme republicans have become so increasingly destructive, their numbers are going along with them; in the gutter. The Republican Party has no leader. Huckabbe won a straw poll at the Values Summit. He is considered to be a "Moonie Loonie". I don't think that as he was well liked by the southerners in his home state in Arkansas and I heard he did some good things.

My question is how this affect the party?



caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 3:56 PM

Still no comment on the troop increase request? You will be pleased to hear that one wing-nut in the spirit of Goldwater commented on the Fox Forum. "Get the troops out and light that place up!!" That should fit your stereotype, No?

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 4:20 PM

No, I was doing something else. I think it is great that the President say it was complicated and that he would listen.This is such a refreshing change from a George Bush who never listened or evaluated a thing. Either Bush would take his orders from Cheney or jump on his dark horse to go it it alone because he couldn't listen. I read one of Bob Woodard's books. I'm try to remember and don't have lot's of time but it was stated Bush is like a blind man and deaf mute in meetings.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/23/woodward-bush-homework/

WOODWARD: I think he’s impatient. I think, my summation: He doesn’t like homework. And homework means reading or getting briefed or having a debate. And part of the presidency, part of governing, particularly in this area, is homework, homework, homework.

WOODWARD: Obama is the opposite. He mainlines homework. He does, you know, where is extra credit.

WOODWARD: Bush looks at problems. And he told me, he said: “I’m a gut player. I play by instincts. I don’t play by the book.” And of course the book is Policy 101 about how you make these kinds of decisions, and all of this [is] coming from the gut.


caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 4:35 PM

Think I'll go with Charles's take

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 4:41 PM

Fine

caramel1
Caramel1  (Level: 128.4 - Posts: 21603)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 6:02 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/22/debate-rages-role-afghanistan-ask-nato/ wityh Iran supplying weapons and now in NY how does it make any sense for the US to support these guys or the UN while our troops die

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Tue, 22nd Sep '09 11:00 PM

I'm thinking Obama isn't the only one overexposed and growing tiresome around here.

bigmama60
Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6648)
Wed, 23rd Sep '09 2:16 AM

I'm thinking Obama isn't the only one overexposed and growing tiresome around here.
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Just who might that be, Jan; the Devil?


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