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Sploofus Editor
Mon, 28th Sep '09 11:46 AM


This thread was inadvertently deleted. I backspaced after I did it, and cut & pasted the thread to a Word document. This is the best I can do to replace it. No editor has the power to undeleted things. Sorry about the mess.

Caramel1 (Level: 21.2 - Posts: 4706)Mon, 28th Sep '09 8:01 AM [ kill ]

JUST CANNOT SEE THIS AS A PRIORITY with all of the trouble in Afghanistan and Iran, just cannot how this can be high on his agenda in importance

Goddess28 (Level: 51.9 - Posts: 1169)Mon, 28th Sep '09 8:11 AM [ kill ] guess is that it is for the US, and his hometown, good for the economy, lots of jobs for Chicago....

Garrybl (Level: 90.5 - Posts: 2542)Mon, 28th Sep '09 8:12 AM [ kill ]

I think we have to take this criticism seriously.
We are so used to a president who cannot do more than one thing at once...(if that).... is there any chance this one could maintain two thoughts in his mind simultaneously? No, that couldn't be.
When such a huge supporter of the president looks into her heart and manages to find something critical to say it must be a true emergency. I suggest we all march on Washington and tell our president 'Don't think about anything but Afghanistan Iran, Iraq... oh wait that's more than one thing.... never mind'.

Felix (Level: 78.6 - Posts: 1980)Mon, 28th Sep '09 8:21 AM [ kill ]

It's just more face time.

Caramel1 (Level: 21.2 - Posts: 4706)Mon, 28th Sep '09 8:32 AM [ kill ]

His head guy in Afghanistan said on TV last night that he has spoken to Obama ONCE in 7 months. Not sure what he is going to do there but either what the guy he appointed wants or bringh our guys home before any more of them die-not have more face-time on TV discssing his "OPTIONS'. The Guy in charge there was in charge of Covert operations in Iraq where it worked well and he knows his stuff. He has told Obama it is NOT working. Obama needs to be Commandeer in Chief not just go around campaigning. Think it might have been wise to heed Hillary's words during the campaign. Posted a bit back what Bush had to say about him being cluelles and believe George was spot on too

Goddess28 (Level: 51.9 - Posts: 1169)Mon, 28th Sep '09 8:39 AM [ kill ]

Bush? Talk about being clueless.

If he passed up a chance to get the Olympics here, people would be complaining about that too. It does not matter, there will never be anything good enough that this President can do to suit some.

Garrybl (Level: 90.5 - Posts: 2542)Mon, 28th Sep '09 8:42 AM [ kill ]

Now we are talking serious criticism; if the leader of the opposite party criticizes a potential presidential candidate, the new guy might as well up and resign immediately. I mean whoever heard of someone criticizing someone from the other party and being WRONG or biased? That's never happened before; let's just up and fire the president now.

Give us a XXXing break Linda; can't you find anything else to do?

Caramel1 (Level: 21.2 - Posts: 4706)Mon, 28th Sep '09 8:44 AM [ kill ]

Should have listened to Hillary. Like George said I would feel much better if her "Fat Keister' was in the chair in te oval office.

Goddess28 (Level: 51.9 - Posts: 1169)Mon, 28th Sep '09 8:48 AM [ kill ]

woman to woman....real nice. Peace.

Caramel1 (Level: 21.2 - Posts: 4706)Mon, 28th Sep '09 9:08 AM [ kill ]

I am retired, Barry. Might be mistaken but thought yu had a job or did they fire you for your rants on company time ? Oh, then agin you might work for the government so it is all in a day's work

Garrybl (Level: 90.5 - Posts: 2542)Mon, 28th Sep '09 9:25 AM [ kill ]

Bad luck Linda, wrong as usual (I know that hardly needs saying...)
But no I work for myself from home so correcting idiocy costs no one but me money.

Fortunately for my budget I tend to limit myself to you.

1mks (Level: 75.6 - Posts: 2430)Mon, 28th Sep '09 9:39 AM [ kill ]

Jeez, seems a little early for this much animosity.

Sploofus Editor
Mon, 28th Sep '09 11:46 AM

Caramel1 (Level: 21.2 - Posts: 4706)Mon, 28th Sep '09 9:59 AM [ kill ]

I've notice that, Barry.

Felix (Level: 78.6 - Posts: 1980)Mon, 28th Sep '09 10:00 AM [ kill ]

Big-O Hug to Linda!

Collioure (Level: 21.3 - Posts: 3202)Mon, 28th Sep '09 10:24 AM [ kill ]

What's the problem, Linda?

Perfectly normal act for a President.

Caramel1 (Level: 21.2 - Posts: 4706)Mon, 28th Sep '09 10:28 AM [ kill ] while he is on the campaign trail as Salesman in Chief our troops are dying. I am with this guy. That reposrt has been on his desk since 8/30. Perhaps if he had skipped a couple off the Sunday shows and Lettermaan selling something that now 56% of the American people don't want, he would have had tie to think about this. He sent thousands of additional troops there saying it was a war we must win and was the proper war. I had serious doubts he knew what he was doing then. NOW he neeeds to get off the fence and quit getting those troops killed- in or out

Goddess28 (Level: 51.9 - Posts: 1169)Mon, 28th Sep '09 10:41 AM [ kill ]

Oh for heavens sake.

Clevercloggs (Level: 20.1 - Posts: 1118)Mon, 28th Sep '09 10:43 AM [ kill ]

The 2012 Olympics are regenerating a huge swathe of East London, maybe parts of Chicago need the same thing. Democrats are like that Linda, they can think about more than one thing at a time.

Caramel1 (Level: 21.2 - Posts: 4706)Mon, 28th Sep '09 10:50 AM [ kill ]

If there is a Chicago left

Collioure (Level: 21.3 - Posts: 3202)Mon, 28th Sep '09 10:52 AM [ kill ]

I doubt that this trip will interfere with his decision on those matters.

The problem of the increased casualties in Afghanistan is a result of a poor decision he made in March to send more troops there without a long range plan. I doubt he will send any more.

Caramel1 (Level: 21.2 - Posts: 4706)Mon, 28th Sep '09 10:54 AM [ kill ]

Which is normal for a President, Andy? campaigning for the Olympics for Chicago or letting that report set on his desk since 8/30 and sitting on the fence whiile young peopple die after he has deployed thousands more

Collioure (Level: 21.3 - Posts: 3202)Mon, 28th Sep '09 11:02 AM [ kill ]

He isn't accepting the report recommendation, Linda. He probably has asked for a redo with more limited objectives.

Alvandy (Level: 47.2 - Posts: 2379)Mon, 28th Sep '09 11:04 AM [ kill ]

I see nothing wrong for a President serving as a "cheerleader" for his country.
Our global image has not been at a level a "superpower' needs to have to work on the threats to our well being and security.
Obama is trying to correct that- you may not agree with his policies, strategies or tactics- but that is what leadership is all about.
It is indeed a change from the recent past.

Collioure (Level: 21.3 - Posts: 3202)Mon, 28th Sep '09 11:10 AM [ kill ]

A change of strategy is not necessarily leadership, Al.

We'll see what kind of leadership he can offer as he deals with Iran.

Clevercloggs (Level: 20.1 - Posts: 1118)Mon, 28th Sep '09 11:11 AM [ kill ]

It would help if the relatives of the "young people" didn't wait until their relatives died before they started complaining about war. When they come home safely, and that is a relative term, they hang out the bunting. This unjust war is killing a lot more Afgans than it is US and UK jack booted thugs. A pity he hasn't got a report on his desk about that.

Caramel1 (Level: 21.2 - Posts: 4706)Mon, 28th Sep '09 11:16 AM [ kill ]

Gates is saying now a defeat in Afghanistan would be a disasterboth strategically and as a morakl victory for the Taliban. Diane Feinstein said on Fox news Sunday that if he keeps trrops there we are looking at 10 years. I am leaning more with the whacko who posted somewhere-get the troops out and light that place up-seems to me the only option that might be effective. MCCrystal headed covert options which is target and kill in Iraq and he knows that job and did well. He is now saying that coupled with drones will not work. Other than another vetnam or blowing that place off eart are the only options-what others do you see, Andy?

Caramel1 (Level: 21.2 - Posts: 4706)Mon, 28th Sep '09 11:18 AM [ kill ]

Collioure  (Level: 115.2 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 28th Sep '09 11:58 AM

Linda, I don't see where drawing down some troops and assuming a defensive posture in Afghanistan becomes a defeat there.

We can't send enough troops there to win and retain territory. It's an impossible landscape with no central authority. We just need to keep really bad stuff from happening. FYI - despite all the fol-de-rol at the outset that's what Bush did.

Caramel1  (Level: 136.2 - Posts: 21612)
Mon, 28th Sep '09 12:01 PM

I agree with you that a 'win' there is impossible.

Collioure  (Level: 115.2 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 28th Sep '09 12:03 PM

What is your definition of a win there?

Caramel1  (Level: 136.2 - Posts: 21612)
Mon, 28th Sep '09 12:26 PM

Certainly not land and the hearts and minds of the people is a no-go. They are a fractured country-always have been. Not at all sure with his making nice with tyrants while dissing our friend he has a clue on how to lead. He needs to not put any more of our troops in danger than he already has-not sure he can contain the terrorists there either,. His own Attorney General has gone to war against the CIA the last of our defense to these guys. Am thankful for the policies Bush put in place that thwted the most recent attacks here. There are still some of the accoplices out there. Obama in charge reminds me of the "Mouse that Roared" certainly does not make me confident of our safety. Would not blame Israel for anything they feel they need to do as he has een throwing them under the bus from the beginning. Wright is an anti-Jewish and he sat in that church for 20 years. Charles Krauthammer said on Nightly Report thatr the Palestinians feel no need to negotiated anything since Obama wants to begin at the conclusion with his world vision with himself at the helm

Bobolicios  (Level: 119.6 - Posts: 1745)
Mon, 28th Sep '09 1:51 PM

I can't believe the editors brought this thread back. We need more of these like we need a hole in our head.

Caramel1  (Level: 136.2 - Posts: 21612)
Mon, 28th Sep '09 2:17 PM

Then go away!!

Collioure  (Level: 115.2 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 28th Sep '09 2:18 PM

So, Linda, you do not want to try to win there.

Caramel1  (Level: 136.2 - Posts: 21612)
Mon, 28th Sep '09 2:24 PM

Like you said 'iffy' at best to define win there. Just not at all confident that the terrorists can be deterred by the strategy that tyhe guy in charge said won;t work. Waste of more lives to send more. I haven't a clue and the scary part is don't believe Obama does either. He talks and talks and talks and says nothing. Things have deterioratedd there sincde Bush left and he could not pay me enough to work in thed CiA or counterterrorism-says much that Janet heads Homeland Security

Bigmama60  (Level: 95.2 - Posts: 6644)
Mon, 28th Sep '09 3:07 PM

I had the eerie feeling early this morning when I left out this morning this would be a sad depressing day. Eric holder is independent and has his own duties. If Congress can go after ACORN which is their job then Eric holder can do his job CIA too. Cheney and Bush had no boundaries. The 3 branches of the governments meant nothing to the Bush administration.
We have a President who can walk and chew gum at the same time. If the President sets a precedence, I see nothing wrong in making an appeal for 2016. As a matter, of fact, I hope I leave long enough to see the Olympic in home town; Chicago .

There is nothing wrong with thinking before sending our sons in daughter in harms way to an impossible situation.

Charles Krauthammer is just a syndicated columnist on Fox Cluster, who loves to agitate. First of all, he spoke inaccurately as most on Fox Nation do. I didn’t hear say that other officers, who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan and say they admire General McChrystal nonetheless, have privately expressed doubt that additional troops will make a difference. Others question the broader impact of such a buildup on the overall armed forces. [New York Times, 9/27/2009]. If Krauthammer is such an officiano he should have mentioned thed other Generals just to be fair and balanced

Also, some senior officers also are concerned that sending more troops to Afghanistan would add to the already severe strains on an Army and Marine Corps from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Gates said last week that Obama needed time to assess US strategy and should not be rushed over such an important decision.

As usual President seems to appear master of strategy equal to the greatest general and knows what he is doing just like he did by gathering 15 international leaders to disarm. And then he dropped another bomb by exposing Iran. Now the righties use this as a gigantic scare tactic. China and Russia are building their forces and economy while we exhaust ours in two impossible religious wars, we need to get the heck out. I believe President Obama knows this. We need to use those resources at home so can compete globally; otherwise we will be a Banana Republic.

Caramel1  (Level: 136.2 - Posts: 21612)
Mon, 28th Sep '09 3:17 PM

I have questions as to his wisdom in sending the first numbers of troops. I am indeed hoping he knows what he is doing. Russia has said before they will santcttion and havre not-lets hope his goodwill works. Cannot find it now but there was a ad on some people in Chicago not wanting the Olympics but they were strongarmed into not airing it on TV. Know this is a bad day for you, Bevely, and please believe the plight of your daughter makes me sad

Collioure  (Level: 115.2 - Posts: 9952)
Mon, 28th Sep '09 3:25 PM

Beverly, the additional troops sent in March were not well thought-out.

Caramel1  (Level: 136.2 - Posts: 21612)
Mon, 28th Sep '09 3:40 PM

Charles Krauthammer was not talking about in the instance I cited, Afghanistan. He was talking about Israel/Palestine. He did, howerver, offer his opinion that MCCrystal will resign. Obama asked him to assess and tell him wha he needed. On TV last night MCrystal said when a troop commander assesses and requests, the Comander in Chief should not look at the calendar but his watch. I don't know if anything will be successful in Afghanistan but don't believe Obama thought things through before he sent the additional troops there. Charles Krauthammer demean him as you will is excellent on foreign policy. There are no for sures in Afghanistan.

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4593)
Mon, 28th Sep '09 10:49 PM

My thought is - we're not sending our sons and daughters. They are all adults and going because they want to.

People still talk as though there is a draft. There is not. There is not one soldier in Afghanistan or Iraq who didn't sign up to go there. These wars have been going on for 7 years.

Collioure  (Level: 115.2 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 29th Sep '09 3:43 AM

I disagree, Jank.

Obama sent addl troops to give credence to the liberal pap that we had fought the wrong war.

Well, he didn't really have a well thought out strategy, it didn't have anything to do with taking out ObL, and the ill-conceived effort has increased our casualties and those of our NATO allies. Now I imagine he's going to pull back.

Surreyman  (Level: 274.3 - Posts: 2775)
Tue, 29th Sep '09 4:42 AM

Politics aside, I was directly involved, until quite recently, with lads going to and (mostly) returning from Afghanistan.
The feeling is there that this is, at best, a holding operation, with little long term hope of any amazing military or political turnround. Especially when, except for the US & UK, there seems to be a distinct lack of really active & positive support from other NATO nations, even, let alone other directly involved 'allies' such as Pakistan.
The politicians, whatever they say, probably therefore know this also.
So I simply expect a 'tactical withdrawal' as quickly as politics and 'face' allow.
Simple as that.

Collioure  (Level: 115.2 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 29th Sep '09 4:44 AM

Ditto, but not a complete withdrawal.

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4593)
Tue, 29th Sep '09 6:57 AM

Oh, please don't misunderstand. I'm ok with them all coming home soon as possible.

I'm just saying, we're not "sending" our kids. They're going by their own choice into the military in the US. All our military there now knew when they volunteered that they would be going one place or the other for the most part. They're not shoved over there against their will.

Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Tue, 29th Sep '09 7:00 AM

I think we are sending our sons and daughters. Many are immature 18 yr olds who can't find jobs. There are some 18 yr olds who are adults, but think the vast majority are not.
Just finished Jon Krakauer's new book "Where Men Win Glory: The Odyssey of Pat Tillman". For those who don't remember, he was the NFL player who joined the army after 9-11, and was killed by "friendly fire" in Afghanistan. Sad story about an inspiring young man.

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4593)
Tue, 29th Sep '09 7:12 AM

I just can't wrap my brain around that kind of insult toward these young men and women.

Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Tue, 29th Sep '09 7:16 AM

Wasn't meant to be an insult. 18 yr olds are generally not mature. Some surely grow quickly in war zones. Others not.

Caramel1  (Level: 136.2 - Posts: 21612)
Tue, 29th Sep '09 8:50 AM this guy says rather well what I think. He won. Now he needs to be Commander in Chief not Salesman in Chief. He means what he says at the moment looks like

Salzypat  (Level: 162.6 - Posts: 5426)
Tue, 29th Sep '09 9:15 AM

This summer I worked part time in a tourist center near the Veterans' Memorial. One day a young man stopped in who was in the U.S. on leave from a year in Afghanistan. I was privileged to visit with him for 30-45 minutes.

Never mind the lack of interest from other troops - according to this young man (who had been in combat zones - is there anything other than combat zones over there?) - the Afghan people themselves aren't interested. He gave several examples of where they use U.S. money to fight against the troops. He told how his company commander was murdered for $30,000, money the U. S. had given the Afghan officials, who in turn used it to put out a "contract" on the commander.

His take was that the country itself is corrupt, has been for hundreds of years, and they have no intention of giving up that lifestyle now.

His complaint, too, was that they were not given the necessary tools/troops/authority to really make a difference. i believe he said about all they can do is secure their camp and about a mile around the camp in all directions. It's like a "holding" pattern.

I wish I had written down afterward all that he said. It was a real education.

In a few weeks he was due to return to Afghanistan, so I suppose he is back there by now. I wished him well and to return home safely

Caramel1  (Level: 136.2 - Posts: 21612)
Tue, 29th Sep '09 9:29 AM

Harted many of the things he set dealines for but settting then with no "and then what?" makes him look incredibly weak to me can only imagine how he comes off with the foreign leaders including the despots

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