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Clevercloggs  (Level: 27.4 - Posts: 1246)
Mon, 2nd Nov '09 1:49 PM


"If you agree that, in the absence of God, you would 'commit robbery, rape, and murder', you reveal yourself as an immoral person, 'and we would be well advised to steer a wide course around you'. If, on the other hand, you admit that you would continue to be a good person even when not under divine surveillance, you have fatally undermined your claim that God is necessary for us to be good." --Michael Shermer,

Smaug  (Level: 144.7 - Posts: 2765)
Mon, 2nd Nov '09 3:14 PM

Can't I choose:

c: a beer.


Salzypat  (Level: 161.6 - Posts: 5414)
Mon, 2nd Nov '09 10:09 PM

I saw your post earlier today and I have been thinking about it a great deal. I'm not sure that I have a satisfactory answer but I'll give it a try. This is where I have developed my theory so far:

If your parents are out of town for the weekend, are you going to go on a killing spree just because they are not there to watch you? I don't think so because I don't believe that is in your nature. However, you might have a party with loud music and lots of friends over. So you might take advantage of the situation but not to the extent of killing or robbing.

If you are psychologically twisted and committing murder is in your mind, then I don't think the presence or absence of your parents will make any difference. You will find a way to do it.

If your parents are home for the weekend, are you going to behave better because they are there? Probably, simply because they have set out guidelines for behavior and you want to follow these rules because you want to please your parents - not because they are watching or because you are afraid of them.

So I think the premise of the quote is of little consequence.

Bobolicios  (Level: 119.6 - Posts: 1745)
Mon, 2nd Nov '09 10:15 PM

I love ya Pat, but I don't regard God in heaven as equating to my parents, especially my step father. Sorry I don't get the mixed metaphor.

Salzypat  (Level: 161.6 - Posts: 5414)
Tue, 3rd Nov '09 2:50 AM

That's one of the problems many Christians have - thinking of God as their heavenly father when their father on earth is not the loving, caring kind of father Christians think of God as being. I guess one must try to overcome the earthly father's shortcomings and see God as the kind of loving father they wished they had.

However, I was using the parents in this example as someone overseeing us.

I said (or thought I didi) that I had struggled with how to express what I was thinking, so maybe I just didn't explain it adequately.

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4593)
Tue, 3rd Nov '09 6:09 AM

You did great, Pat.

Mplaw51  (Level: 184.8 - Posts: 1581)
Tue, 3rd Nov '09 6:26 AM

I get Dave's point.

I get Pat's point as well.

I'm not a fence sitter. There's room for both thoughts as far a I'm concerned. For me it's worse to denigrate either viewpoint for their beliefs.

I love beer, too....

Smaug  (Level: 144.7 - Posts: 2765)
Tue, 3rd Nov '09 8:14 AM

You could replace "God" with "Government" by the way.

Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Tue, 3rd Nov '09 8:27 AM

Possibly, but one thing is pretty sure, in the absence of both god and government, we'd soon be busily creating several contradictory versions of both.

Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12009)
Tue, 3rd Nov '09 8:30 AM

Oopsie! Sorry, board nannies, I thought this thread was in Tangents, didn't mean to post in the happy place.

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