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Garrybl  (Level: 294.3 - Posts: 6810)
Tue, 22nd Dec '09 9:50 AM


Very informative --thank you....

But dont you just hate filling in the last clue, checking it twice, then discovering a millisecond too late as you press the button that your typo has moved you out of first place.....AArgh!

Diva305  (Level: 153.6 - Posts: 1656)
Tue, 22nd Dec '09 4:08 PM

Passing fad made up by a convicted felon, Marxist, follower of Malcolm X, and the Black Panthers and the US Organization, a more radical group founded by Karenga,

Central to Karenga's Marxist collectivist doctrine are the Nguzo Saba, the Seven Principles of Blackness, which are reinforced during the seven days of Kwanzaa.

Yey! Let's all celebrate Marxism during this Holiday Season!

Alvandy  (Level: 242.1 - Posts: 7727)
Tue, 22nd Dec '09 4:17 PM

The Ten Things about Kwanzaa was a very informative puzzle. I certainly knew very little about its origins and transition before today.

Daveguth  (Level: 269.5 - Posts: 1636)
Tue, 22nd Dec '09 5:27 PM

Yes, I thought it was an interesting puzzle too.

Sandracam  (Level: 149.3 - Posts: 4190)
Tue, 22nd Dec '09 6:15 PM

Fun and interesting puzzle!

Collioure  (Level: 115.5 - Posts: 9952)
Tue, 22nd Dec '09 7:00 PM

Fine puzzle

(about a phony holiday)

Asor  (Level: 162.7 - Posts: 595)
Tue, 22nd Dec '09 9:59 PM

Great puzzle. Whatever its origins, I think any observance that instills cultural pride in children (without being tinged with xenophobia) is a good thing. Lots of segments of U.S. society--Poles, Italians, Irish, etc.--maintain some of their cultural traditions even generations away from the "homeland." African Americans who came unwillingly to America didn't have the option of "staying in touch" with family back home, and I would venture to guess that most have no clue from which country/ies their ancestors hailed. Kwanzaa may be a made-up holiday (aren't they all at the beginning??), but it serves a purpose (especially now that it has grown beyond its divisive founder).

Lamizell  (Level: 108.2 - Posts: 441)
Tue, 22nd Dec '09 10:42 PM

Nicely said. And let's not forget that today's Christmas is a mish-mash of cultural traditions tacked onto a pagan holiday to make Christianity more palatable to the Romans.

Salzypat  (Level: 162.6 - Posts: 5428)
Wed, 23rd Dec '09 1:07 AM

This was truly an informative puzzle and fun to do.

Collioure  (Level: 115.5 - Posts: 9952)
Wed, 23rd Dec '09 3:13 AM

An African holiday hardly observed in Africa, Asor.

Palma's description above is quite accurate.

Mplaw51  (Level: 185.5 - Posts: 1580)
Wed, 23rd Dec '09 8:28 AM

Regardless of its origins, I believe parents are teaching their children to be proud of their heritage. Let's show some spirit of the season and feel good about that.

1mks  (Level: 221.2 - Posts: 5932)
Wed, 23rd Dec '09 9:39 AM

I totally agree but at the same time, I do not know a single person that celebrates this holiday. I have asked the children at school about it......(.we always introduced it at school) most of them have never heard of it and they have never acknowledged it.

Alvandy  (Level: 242.1 - Posts: 7727)
Wed, 23rd Dec '09 9:47 AM

Interestingly enough, Ron Karenga has ties to good old York, Pennsylvania. He graduated from my alma mater , York High [William Penn] in 1958. Here is an article about a recent program he conducted in Millersville University.

Kimoira  (Level: 215.3 - Posts: 1202)
Wed, 23rd Dec '09 10:14 AM

Kwanzaa seems to have fizzled out the last few years. When it first caught on it made a big splash, but I don't hear much about it any more.

Allena  (Level: 268.8 - Posts: 1428)
Wed, 23rd Dec '09 10:26 AM

The teachers at school love to have the children sing a variety of songs to re-enforce the idea that they are not singing solely Christmas songs. Hanukkah, Christmas, The Festival of Lights and Kwanzaa were the post popular. However, since the origin of Kwanzaa became known, few care. Martin Luther King Jr. Day is a holiday and is far more celebrated. Diva, (Palma) has it right.

Asor  (Level: 162.7 - Posts: 595)
Wed, 23rd Dec '09 12:04 PM

Just as St. Patrick's day is a subdued affair in Ireland, Collioure. But that doesn't mean we Irish Americans can't have a lot of fun with it! Lord knows, we do!

People seem so threatened by Kwanzaa. I just don't get it. (Actually, I do get it, which is worse...)

Collioure  (Level: 115.5 - Posts: 9952)
Wed, 23rd Dec '09 12:43 PM

Threatened? I really don't get that.

It's just a phony holiday. And if you know me well, it just don't like phony.

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4593)
Wed, 23rd Dec '09 1:17 PM

My students have expressed that they don't care about Kwanzaa at all. They agree that Martin Luther King day is the holiday that shows their greatest source of pride and celebration.

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4593)
Wed, 23rd Dec '09 1:18 PM

Asor - are you accusing my African-American students of being racist since they don't care about Kwanzaa?

Diva305  (Level: 153.6 - Posts: 1656)
Wed, 23rd Dec '09 2:55 PM

Mickeym  (Level: 88.2 - Posts: 1803)
Wed, 23rd Dec '09 3:11 PM

Another possible reason for the lukewarm Kwansaa celebration is that most of the African-Americans I know are practicing Christians who celebrate Christmas extensively. Thus it is competing with a "real" ie older holiday that possible celebrants already celebrated. And yes folks, Hanukkah is a really really secondary holiday for us after Passover and Rosh Hashanah (please don't say anything about my spelling LOL) -- even Purim and Succoth was bigger at our house.

Asor  (Level: 162.7 - Posts: 595)
Wed, 23rd Dec '09 9:08 PM

No, Jank. What I'm saying is why not let people who find something meaningful in Kwanzaa celebrate it without other people questioning its value. Who on earth is it hurting?

Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12008)
Wed, 23rd Dec '09 11:33 PM

Wowser. Unreal. Martin Luther King Day is about achieving American-ness, Kwanzaa is about honoring African-ness, so they don't really compare. It's like saying you should forget Easter because you already have Christmas.

You folks must not live in or near black neighborhoods. I do, and I see local shops decorated, Christmas decorations using Kwanzaa colors, my neighbor's kids know the meaning of Swahili words (and taught them to me), local news covers events (they DO exist), it may not be saturation, but it's hardly invisible or forgotten where I live. Matter of fact, it's more visible in North Jax than Channukah. If it has meaning for people, what the hell? All holidays are either made up or stolen. Live and let live already.

Merry Happy Hippy Hollydays to all, whatever you may celebrate, do it with all your

Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12008)
Wed, 23rd Dec '09 11:53 PM

Puzzle was cool. Thanks, Sploof, I used two of them in pub trivia, using two more next week. Any puzzle I get pub questions from is a GREAT puzzle, whatever it's about.

Diva305  (Level: 153.6 - Posts: 1656)
Thu, 24th Dec '09 12:05 AM

Quotes from Karenga-

"The sevenfold path of blackness is think black, talk black, act black, create black, buy black, vote black, and live black."

"I came up with Kwanzaa because black people in this country wouldn't celebrate it if they knew it was American. Also, I put it around Christmas because I knew that's when a lot of bloods would be partying. "

That's not racist?
From Al's link:

The problem with Karenga is that he is a virulent racist Afronazi. His "Us Organization" poisons the politics on many California college campuses with their supremacist racism.

They are a despicable hate cult, and Karenga should never be mentioned in the press without the addendum "creator of an infamous California hate cult" and "convicted torturer of women". That's who he really is.


According to Wikipedia:

"In 1971, Karenga, Louis Smith, and Luz Maria Tamayo were convicted of felony assault and false imprisonment for assaulting and torturing over a two day period two women from the US Organization, Deborah Jones and Gail Davis. An article in the Los Angeles Times described the testimony of one of the women: "Deborah Jones, who once was given the title of an African queen, said she and Gail Davis were whipped with an electrical cord and beaten with a karate baton after being ordered to remove their clothes. She testified that a hot soldering iron was placed in Miss Davis' mouth and placed against Miss Davis' face and that one of her own big toes was tightened in a vise. Karenga, head of US, also put detergent and running hoses in their mouths, she said."


See above links for more information about Karenga.

It is disturbing that Sploofus would honor a convicted torturer, Marxist, follower of Malcolm X, and convicted felon who made up this BOGUS holiday.

Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12008)
Thu, 24th Dec '09 12:40 AM

Jesus was a criminal, charged and executed for a capital crime according to the laws of the time and place, and the converted Romans laid a fake birthday for him over the wildly popular and good-for-business Saturnalia hundreds of years later. The Maccabees made up Hannukah, it wasn't divinely ordained, it was created for a purpose, they all are. So was Kwanzaa. The difference is centuries and celebrants. It honors African roots, not Karenga, who was a militant civil rights activist and a felon, and a product of his own time and place.

A celebration means what the celebrants thnk it means, no more, no less. The quotes you used are 40 years old and that's not what my neighbors tell their children. Thing have changed in the past few decades for some folks, even Karenga.

Luckily for many people, the things that have meaning for them don't vanish because they have no meaning to you. I did read that Kwanzaa is little respected in South Florida specifically. Wonder what that's about? Guess it really depends on where you live as much as what kind of person you are.

Surreyman  (Level: 274.9 - Posts: 2776)
Thu, 24th Dec '09 3:56 AM

Virtually unknown in the UK, as far as I'm aware.
Blacks in the UK just become Archbishops of York!
But, as a stamp collector, I note that the US has published official postage stamps celebrating Kwanzaa.
Is that official recognition, or just a PC sop?

Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12008)
Thu, 24th Dec '09 4:00 AM

Dunno. They're reissued every few years and they sell, so what does that tell you?

Kaufman  (Level: 270.1 - Posts: 3942)
Thu, 24th Dec '09 6:11 AM

A decade or two ago, the USPS solely issued an annual Christmas stamp or two (typically a religious Madonna one and a secular celebration one) at this time of year. Then they got the idea to also note Chanukah with a stamp in the name of equal time, political correctness, or whatever (though a Passover stamp in spring would probably be more religiously equivalent). Now they also honor Islam with an Eid stamp, and cover more of December with the Kwanzaa stamp. Probably won't be long till we also have annual Buddhist and Hindu themes, given those demographics' growth here. And dare I say Festivus?

Surreyman  (Level: 274.9 - Posts: 2776)
Thu, 24th Dec '09 6:24 AM

Wicca's more likely in the UK!

Mickeym  (Level: 88.2 - Posts: 1803)
Thu, 24th Dec '09 9:21 AM

We already have a stamp or stamps for the Chinese year of the ........not sure how that fits in but they sure are pretty.

Smoke  (Level: 96.7 - Posts: 12008)
Thu, 24th Dec '09 10:33 AM

Do you have holiday stamps, Alan? Thought all yours had the monarch?

Surreyman  (Level: 274.9 - Posts: 2776)
Thu, 24th Dec '09 10:42 AM

Brit stamps were the world's first - and only, for a bit, so they didn't bother to put the country's name on - which still continues to this day.
Every stamp has the monarch's head, usually in silhouette.
But, always including those basics, there are many special event etc. issues with all sorts of added photos/illustrations.

Dona  (Level: 215.9 - Posts: 14)
Thu, 24th Dec '09 11:08 AM

USPS stamps include: Kwanzaa, Hanukkah, Christmas and EID (Muslim end to Ramadan). Martin Luther King Jr. has multiple image stamps.

Now that Sir Surreyman is a Lord, can a stamp be far behind?

Surreyman  (Level: 274.9 - Posts: 2776)
Thu, 24th Dec '09 11:39 AM

Just see my 1912 issue.

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