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pepperdoc
Pepperdoc  (Level: 152.5 - Posts: 4286)
Mon, 24th May '10 12:10 AM

THE FINALE

Okay. It was very good and very emotional and showed that finding out that our characters reach a state of happiness was a good thing. However, I'm a little irritated that they were "dead." The purgatory theme was guessed early on in Season 1, and the producers denied that the Losties were dead or that the island was purgatory.

Okay, technically, I guess it wasn't purgatory, but it was certainly convenient that each person died after doing something heroic or noble. And, they were prepared at the end to move on into the "light."

I'm going to chew on this a bit further and then post later.

I will say I was very happy to see the people who had fallen in love, get reunited with their loved ones.

fudypatootie
Fudypatootie  (Level: 197.1 - Posts: 1302)
Mon, 24th May '10 1:40 AM

I'm very disappointed. Okay, so no, they weren't dead or in purgatory (or any other version of that) in the earlier seasons, but it turns out the flash sideways WERE purgatory, so since the first one showed up, that's what it's been. And they clearly said that this was NOT purgatory. I'm very disappointed in that. Don't say something is not true if it is. To me, that's just a lie.

The more I think about this, the more disappointed I get.

And while, yes, my only tears of the night were at the reunions and remembrances because those scenes were very moving, their happy endings came only after death. Woo hoo. For those who believe in an afterlife, isn't that the theory of what we'll all experience? Reunions with passed loved ones? No one got a happy ending on the island. Six people got off the island, but we don't know if they had happy lives or not.

I was so looking forward to going back and re-watching all the earlier seasons, but now, it's gonna have to wait a good long while until I'm no longer upset about the bait-and-switch they pulled.

pepperdoc
Pepperdoc  (Level: 152.5 - Posts: 4286)
Mon, 24th May '10 8:38 AM

I feel the same way.

They emphasized that the island was real and the deaths there were real. I assume Hurley and Ben had a good run, because Hurley told Ben that he made a great #2 and Ben told Hurley that he made a great #1. I assume that everyone else inside the church was dead, and it now makes more sense what Eloise Hawkings said to Desmond earlier this season that "They weren't ready," in referring to some of the other Losties.

Another interesting point. Jack never had a son, but in his sideways/purgatory he had a son with Juliet who became his ex-wife.

And, it also makes sense that the sideways/purgatory scenes were positive or evolved to positive experience for the Losties.

(But it does still irk me that the producers show down the purgatory/they're-dead theory in season 1. To me it's just semantics. True, the island wasn't purgatory, but those who died went through purgatory on the sideways flashbacks this season.)

fudypatootie
Fudypatootie  (Level: 197.1 - Posts: 1302)
Mon, 24th May '10 1:28 PM

Right about it being semantics.

I don't think it's the fact that they were already dead in the sideways that bugs me so much as being led to believe that we had to find another solution to what was going on. Being told they weren't dead colored my whole view of the show all along, but for them to change the rules in Season 6 meant that we were all playing by the wrong rule book at that point. Of all the possible solutions to the flash sideways question that I read, heard and discussed, not once did anyone ever suggest they were dead because we'd all already ruled out that possibility. If that possibility had been left on the table, I think we may have figured it out.

Maybe that's why I'm upset - that I didn't figure it out. Maybe I'm being a pissy little baby. I don't know.

daveguth
Daveguth  (Level: 254.0 - Posts: 1636)
Mon, 24th May '10 6:37 PM

While I’ve diligently read the posts in this group over the last few years, I’ve never really wanted to jump into this discussion. There was really one only reason—I’ve been suspicious from year one that there wasn’t much “behind the curtain.” So, I just shut up—I didn’t want ruin the fun by suggesting that the Dharma Initiative would never be fully explained, the big dopey foot with three toes really didn’t mean anything, etc.

That said, let me make it clear that I don’t think I was any smarter about any of this than anybody who posted to this site, or otherwise was a regular LOST viewer. I also watched religiously, and I always hoped the details would, miraculously, be explained and make sense in the end. I even had a faint hope that the final episode would be a huge AHA moment, and that I would look forward to reliving the series on DVD to catch all the references. (Not now—the emptiness behind the curtain would be even more apparent!)

I also want to say how much I’ve appreciated the conversations you’ve folks have had—there was some excellent analysis. While my cynical side told me that those of you who parsed the details would ultimately be disappointed, I sure enjoyed the thoughtful discussions that appeared here.

OK, now my whine (especially now that a consensus is growing that this series was really just a trip down the rabbit hole). Though the producers/writers like to brag about how this show was “never dumbed down” and was aimed at the intelligence of the audience, I think exactly the opposite was the case. A LOT of intelligent folks watched this show with the anticipation that a huge thought-provoking puzzle would be solved. However, I believe the puzzle was never more than a series of flashy and hollow “cool” things that the writers thought up. (I’ve seen interviews where they mention that they included plot devices because they were “cool.”)

Rather than adding new plot twists that would lead to a “whole ending,” I believe plot twists were just thrown in by the writers to get people talking. Consider the three-toed foot, and eventually the gigantic statue. No clue was given to why it existed, and, in particular, what meaning it had to Jacob and the Man in Black. We eventually learned where those two characters came from, but were left with the same mystery regarding the origin of the statue, the fake mom, and, ultimately the whole mythology of the island—including the light.

Most of these “clues” were just flashy lures to attract more viewers (and, oh, I suppose, give the fanatic Losties something to overanalyze at future nerd conventions). There was never any intent to truly challenge viewers and given them a puzzle they had any hope of solving. Even worse, there wasn’t even a true puzzle they couldn’t solve (but would be explained in the end). We just got cross-religious mumbo jumbo that assured us that all this meaningless stuff really did have meaning.

As far as disappointment about the purgatory lie, that only bothers me in that the purgatory/heaven was so poorly defined and explained. Was this purgatory/heaven for each of the characters—even for the ones who had not yet died to our knowledge? (Jack’s dad kind of explains this when he tells Jack there is no “now,” so I guess it’s possible that Lost’s heaven includes people who haven’t died yet.) Or was this just Jack’s purgatory/heaven, as suggested by Jimmy Kimmel and Matthew Fox on the wrap-up show? In fact, Kimmel suggested that Jack died on the plane trip back to the island, which implies that Jack’s second island visit (including ALL of the business with time travel, the light, etc.) was also in purgatory. (I have about 50 more questions about the purgatory business, including who was lucky enough to be invited to the church for the goodbye party, but I can tell this post is getting way too long!)

OK, that all said, I think last night’s show was exceptionally well done. There was a lot of excitement and emotion spread over 2.5 hours. I think the personal stories, the production values, the acting, the music, and really everything about the WHOLE series were phenomenal. If taken for what it was—a show about “lost” people who find each other through adversity, with some “cool” gimmicks thrown in—then it was an amazing, groundbreaking success.

But, please, spare us this garbage about a show for “intelligent people.” The gimmicky puzzle pieces were the equivalent of amusement park thrill rides—cheap thrills designed to speed up your heart and dull your brain.


fudypatootie
Fudypatootie  (Level: 197.1 - Posts: 1302)
Mon, 24th May '10 7:29 PM

Thank you so much, Dave, for that analysis! You so eloquently said what I'm feeling. The whole reason I got so involved in discussing the show with other intelligent folks was the fun of trying to unravel a mystery. To have so many red herrings and errant clues that led to virtually nothing is an insult to my intelligence.

I do so love the characters, though. I would have enjoyed the show if all we'd ever had were just flashbacks of who these people were as we watched them battle nothing more than how they were to get off the island.

lisap369
Lisap369  (Level: 61.1 - Posts: 992)
Mon, 24th May '10 10:52 PM

I'll throw a few thoughts, if you don't mind. I feel almost exactly the same as all of you. I DID enjoy the remembrance sequences, I WAS moved by the relationship reunions, including Jack and his father and the scene with Hurly and Jack when Jack was "passing the torch" so to speak but, BUT (!) I feel completely ripped off for the 6 years I invested in what I thought was a wonderful, thought provoking, character-driven, innovative series. I really expected more from the finale. Anyone remember the year of crap from the Dallas "it was all a dream" season? lol .. kind of reminded me of that.

So disappointed ... I feel duped.. really thought there would be something more profilic. Especially when Jacob told Richard that he was not dead.

I liked the idea that be 'putting out' the light made Locke/MIB mortal and that Richard gained his first grey hair during while the light was out.

I also wondered about some of the other characters missing from the final scene.. why WASN'T Richard in the church? He was somebody significant to Jack... someone else I know mention Echo but I don't really think that character played a big role in Jack's life. AND, with the 'sideways flashes', why would Jack have been married and divorced from Juliet? with a child? He was already in 'purgatory' .. doesn't make sense to me... among other things.

I could go on and on and on and on lmao but, I'll quit here as I keep thinking about all the details ... long story short (too late? lol) ... I FEEL JIPPED!

pepperdoc
Pepperdoc  (Level: 152.5 - Posts: 4286)
Mon, 24th May '10 11:28 PM

How do you really feel, Dave? Don't hold back.

Ditto to what you all said.

The irony is that I was banking on a genius scriptwriter to come up with a dazzling ending that hadn't already been explored by thousands of LOST fans who have poured over just about every philosophical tome out there - not to mention electromagnetic theory, etc.
I would have been fine to have dropped some of the mythology lose ends, but the wrap up just didn't feel right to me.

On a humorous note, I noticed there is a guy who has started a petition (probably on Facebook) demanding that the writers create a better ending. Ha! Good luck with that.

daveguth
Daveguth  (Level: 254.0 - Posts: 1636)
Tue, 25th May '10 12:05 AM

Remember now, Pepperdoc, I've been holding these comments back for six years! Isn't a little bit of venting excusable?

foogs
Foogs  (Level: 267.4 - Posts: 848)
Tue, 25th May '10 11:14 AM

I thought the ending was about the best that could be
expected. I wasn't expecting genius.

What bugged me most, though, was that I was
enjoying the final up until the moment Jack walked into
the room with his father's coffin. I knew immediately it
would be empty and that Christian would be some
sort of spirit guide. That ticked me off because I don't
see Christian as central to the story.

And after thinking about it a bit I'm also ticked that
Sawyer had nothing to do in the finale (that I remember).
Most every other character did something. Sawyer just
hung around.

Not sure I feel so bad about watching for six years
and have it all come to nothing. Each season was a
story, and you take them for what they are.


daveguth
Daveguth  (Level: 254.0 - Posts: 1636)
Tue, 25th May '10 11:25 AM

I realize I made a mistake in my long post above. The scene that Jimmy Kimmel was talking about was not on the second fight to the island--it was the "redo" of the original Oceania 815 flight. So, yeah, it makes sense--given the purgatory scenario--that Jack dies at the beginning of the flash sideways story.

Still wondering though--if this is Jack's purgatory--what all this other people are doing in it. Does Jack's purgatory really include all this detailed stuff, like Ben trying to blackmail his principal? Oh, wait, questions go in a different thread.


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