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sblv
Sblv  (Level: 188.6 - Posts: 337)
Thu, 11th Jan '07 12:41 AM

CONGRATULATIONS! BUT I AM ONLY WONDERING...

Monthly Wager Records (Top 10) for January


THE BIGGEST WINNERS

Username Date Wager
1 - rnmorg 01/03/2007 2,147,483,647
2 - keebydog 01/03/2007 2,147,483,647
3 - larrybus 01/03/2007 2,147,483,647
4 - larrybus 01/03/2007 2,147,483,647

...why is the wager amount exactly the same?


smokydevil
Smokydevil  (Level: 163.0 - Posts: 5381)
Thu, 11th Jan '07 2:19 AM

Not positive, but I believe that is the most you can anybody can wager.

tuzilla
Tuzilla  (Level: 134.2 - Posts: 3779)
Thu, 11th Jan '07 12:48 PM

Someone told me it had to do with limitations of the programming and hardware. They said some upgrading was necessary to get beyond this number for wagers.

sargon
Sargon  (Level: 112.0 - Posts: 1256)
Thu, 11th Jan '07 6:43 PM

Does that mean there is a limit on the number of points that can be accumulated in Sploofus?

tuzilla
Tuzilla  (Level: 134.2 - Posts: 3779)
Thu, 11th Jan '07 10:51 PM

I don't know. But I can say that with added equipment soft and hard, things could probably be expanded indefinitely. It is just a matter of the all mighty buckaroos.

johnbtv
Johnbtv  (Level: 265.0 - Posts: 202)
Sat, 13th Jan '07 9:43 PM

The number in question is 2 raised to the 31st power, or, in other words, 2 multiplied by itself 31 times. It is a 32-bit computer storage limitation. I am guessing that it is the capacity of the variable that holds the wagered value which the programmer chose to be represented as an integer.

Technically, the 32-bit values can be 0 through 4,294,967,295 which is approximately twice the value in question. That's because this odd number, when divided by 2, results in a quotient containing a fractional value of 2,147,483,647.5.

So, the Sploofus programmer used the quotient without the fractional component to represent the range of −2,147,483,648 through 2,147,483,647. This was probably done to enable a REDUCTION (by use of the NEGATIVE value) in total points in case the wager was unsuccessful!

Hope that helps.

John

lisap369
Lisap369  (Level: 61.1 - Posts: 992)
Sat, 13th Jan '07 10:11 PM

Ya.. what he said

larrybus
Larrybus  (Level: 307.7 - Posts: 383)
Sat, 13th Jan '07 10:13 PM

As Kaufman has explained in another thread, the limit of 2,147,483,647 points for wagers is also the limit for 32-bit fixed-point (integer) arithmetic in digital computers. Specifically, it is equal to one less than 2 raised to the 31st power with one bit reserved for the sign, or +/-2,147,483,647. However, showdowns are also limited, but to a more obviously arbitrary 214,748,364 points, 10 percent of the wager limit. Dividing by 10 is not a neat calculation in binary.

My guess is that both limits are arbitrary. For starters, Kravfighter has had over 25,000,000 points, 10 times the 32-bit limit, so the database limit is obviously larger than that. For addition and subtraction there seems to be no limit yet.

Also, if you have more than 8.59 billion points when you choose to do a wager, the setup page calculates the maximum wager as 25% of your total points and lets you insert that value in the box on the page. Only after you win or lose do you find out that the wager value was actually limited to 2,147,483,647.

Likewise, if you have more than 2.147 billion points when challenging someone to a showdown, the values shown for winning and losing are calculated as 10% of the challenger's and challengee's total points. Again, only after the showdown is complete do you discover that you have won or lost no more than 214,748,364 points. BTW, the challengee in that showdown is informed correctly that winning would be worth 214M points.

Most Intel and AMD processors made since late 2002 for PCs and servers are capable of 64-bit arithmetic and that seems to be exactly why the showdown and wager pages continue to calculate the 10% and 25% values as if there were no limits. With 64 bits, one can work with integers as large as 2**63 - 1 or 9.223X10**18 or 9.223 quintillion. I'm not absolutely sure of my calculations here, but it's a BIG number, about 9,223,372,036,854,775,807.

So 2,147,483,647 for wagers and 214,748,364 for showdowns are not limits imposed by arithmetic in the system. It's not the limit in the database or no one would have more than 2 billion points. My guess is that both the wager and showdown limits have been arbitrarily imposed by Sploofus, probably to keep the databases and displays manageable.


johnbtv
Johnbtv  (Level: 265.0 - Posts: 202)
Sun, 14th Jan '07 1:24 PM

In retrospect, Larrybus's answer makes more sense. We will, however, need to wait for Justin's input to find out the REAL answer!

John

kaufman
Kaufman  (Level: 257.1 - Posts: 3936)
Mon, 15th Jan '07 3:10 PM

As I recall, total points had been capped at 2,147,what,ever points a year ago, and then an adjustment was made to the system to allow higher totals, but it did not scale up the wagers too.

larrybus
Larrybus  (Level: 307.7 - Posts: 383)
Mon, 15th Jan '07 8:17 PM

Total points were never capped, but the bar graph on the profile didn't go past 2 billion until early 2006. There were several users with maxed out graphs but as much as 4+ billion points for several months until it was fixed as part of a redesign of the profile page.

kaufman
Kaufman  (Level: 257.1 - Posts: 3936)
Mon, 15th Jan '07 9:03 PM

That's what it was. Thanks.


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