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sblv
Sblv  (Level: 188.6 - Posts: 337)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 1:29 AM

SHOWDOWN TOKENS: AGAIN?

Maybe around 6 mos ago I was asking people to place showdown challenges to make my life more interesting. Now, after losing several myself, I stopped doing those and have collected almost twenty unused tokens.
At this moment I just can not afford to lose 10% of my points several times. The wager tokens do not come around very often and for me it is the only way to get big points.

I know that many people save these tokens and never use them. Is it possible to change a system in the showdown challenges maybe by reducing the amount to fewer percent points or do something else to make it more interractive.

I know this is not a priority, but this question has came up before.

geophile
Geophile  (Level: 159.4 - Posts: 1521)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 1:38 AM

I absolutely agree with Simon. I have unused tokens too and, unless I'm feeling unusually optimistic, I seldom challenge anyone. I just took 2 mil points away from a player because he/she didn't respond within the time period - 7 days; maybe they were on vacation, hospitalized, whatever. I think this aspect of Sploofus needs some serious revamping. I know several players with scads of unused showdown tokens.


eesusbejesus
Eesusbejesus  (Level: 75.0 - Posts: 3645)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 1:56 AM

I have 93. I would like to trade them in for what's behind door number two.

papermanbill
Papermanbill  (Level: 41.3 - Posts: 1313)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 5:31 AM


I have no problem with the token system, it's the category selection. I try to do at least one challenge per week. I have been correct only three times and lost two because of my times. Has anyone ever done a challenge in their favorite category?? I say you should be able to choose and let the person being challenged approve or reject category. By the way, you don't lose anything if you don't respond.

bigbird
Bigbird  (Level: 239.4 - Posts: 3302)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 6:13 AM

I have 101 showdown tokens hanging around in my till. I always respond to challenges (and frequently lose, I might add) but only once did I ever have the nerve to actually use one of them. I lost. I can actually feel my blood pressure going up when I am challenged - and I think it is because there are only a few categories that I am comfortable with. I'll probably win if it is Science or Vocabulary and maybe even Geography - but the other player will win if it is in any other category.

That said, I do think the challenges should be blind. Otherwise folks will only be challenging others in their favorite categories, and that certainly does not level the playing field.

Alice

rowlanda
Rowlanda  (Level: 70.0 - Posts: 2856)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 6:44 AM

I don't get it....have looked all over for my Showdown tokens
but have NO idea where they are or how many I have.
Don't even know how you get them.
I don't answer challenges, so may have lost all of them????

Have heard people recommend that you challenge people
who don't actively play anymore - to get their points
with little risk to your own.

gypsylady
Gypsylady  (Level: 142.7 - Posts: 6057)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 6:49 AM

Rowlanda, look at the top of your "Command Center". It will tell you how many Showdown Tokens and Wager Tokens you have. I have 45 Showdown Tokens. I use to use them when I first joined and did pretty well, but after losing a few have backed off on starting one. I always respond to them since you have nothing to lose.

Marilyn...

eesusbejesus
Eesusbejesus  (Level: 75.0 - Posts: 3645)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 6:52 AM

Its hard to think of a more fair way to handle the showdown challenges than what is already in place. Although its hard to feel its fair when I answer almost immediately but still come up with a "Sorry but XXXX answered it in 6 seconds." And then I find myself saying "No WAY it took me over 6 seconds to answer that....."

But how about we can opt out of the showdowns. This would mean we could never be challenged but would also mean you never could challenge and that during your opt out time, you would never earn tokens. Those who want to participate in showdowns could still do so against the next person in line who has opted to remain active in showdowns.

Showdowns seem to be the only place where we can't control our participation in Sploofus. We can choose to participate in quizzes, WR's, WM's, WP's, and our TQOTD. It can be argued that we don't HAVE to participate when we are challenged to a showdown but it is disquieting not to do so once you have been engaged. I don't appreciate losing the showdowns on factors that are out of my control, like when you answer a TQOTD correctly but the time just keeps on going until it says you have timed out. Those differences between all of our computer speeds, our internet connections, etc., don't put us all on an equal playing field when it comes to the showdowns.

Anyway, just a thought. I've only had a couple of hours of sleep thanks to Harry Potter so if this post is incoherent, blame J.K. Rowling.

Lodi

revdodd
Revdodd  (Level: 68.7 - Posts: 775)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 8:48 AM

I use the tokens, and I like the fact that those challenged don't lose points. After all, they didn't ask to be dragged into this rodeo.

However (and after a spate of losses or thankfully the other person didn't know the answer either) I've come to view the shwdowns with a sense of dread. We're talking about REAL points now.

I propose this: Change the challenge to a best two-of-three. If the person challeneged has no interest (and some don't) they may simply indicate so, stepping out of the event. The contest then at least doesn't hinge on one potentially archane bit of information ("Gary Player's golf shoe size?" Awww, c'mon!) but on knowing (or not knowing) more than one tidbit of trivia.

Don't know how much trouble it would create in programming, but it would be more fun.

koota
Koota  (Level: 181.9 - Posts: 2104)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 9:41 AM

I enjoy the Showdowns and *love* being challenged because I don't have to worry about losing points, but I may gain some. I'm a competitive person, and the agony and high blood pressure are just part of the fun.

I have 84 showdown tokens, though. I've found that some Sploofusers are offended by being challenged to a Showdown.

missashlee
Missashlee  (Level: 125.6 - Posts: 543)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 10:14 AM

I used to challenge more Showdowns when I was fairly new to the site, but I find that I just don't think to do it anymore.

Since free members can't do wagers (maybe one or two when they are new? forgot what it is), showdowns are one of the few options available to them to get a lot of points.

I only have 60 showdown tokens. Bigbird, 101?? How about a leaderboard of members with the most showdown tokens? That would be fun!

baggiob
Baggiob  (Level: 142.7 - Posts: 888)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 10:54 AM

I have a grand total of 0 showdown tokens. I must confess to using them the same day I get them, sunday's wouldn't be the same.

I think the best way to get more people to use them is take away the chance of losing points. Simply have it that the winner wins the points and the loser loses nothing. The way it is just now the challenger could lose 10% of their points, It is their risk completely.

Just have it so that if they lose they don't lose any points and I am sure more and more people would use their tokens more often.

siouxsie
Siouxsie  (Level: 104.6 - Posts: 145)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 11:05 AM

Sixty-eight tokens here. I used to use them when I was nearer the bottom of the pile, but now that I'm in the top 100, no way! In that formidable company I would be crazy to challenge. My blood pressure goes up even when challenged, and if I were doing the challenging, it would be over the top. I, too, have had the experience of answering superfast, only to be told that I lost on time. Also, the next to last time I was challenged, I correctly answered a hard question and had a Sploofus quake. So I didn't lose any points, but I didn't gain either. All-in-all, showdowns have been a frustrating experience for me, but I think maybe they are for the adrenalin junkies among us, which definitely does not describe me!

maurlin
Maurlin  (Level: 213.3 - Posts: 2671)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 12:05 PM

I have 87 unused Showdown Tokens, and I plan to collect many more, unless I can trade them 10:1 for Wager Tokens, or even just 1 Wager Token for all 87. I am perfectly happy to have anyone challenge me to a showdown, with nothing to lose if I answer incorrectly or not quite as fast.

parsman
Parsman  (Level: 225.5 - Posts: 18)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 12:10 PM

I like the Showdown system - not that I'm particularly good at it, or successful, but it's become a weekly habit. Don't change it!

barb
Barb  (Level: 183.7 - Posts: 38)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 1:34 PM

Baggiob's idea is spectacular! I have not yet challenged anyone, but always respond to challenges if I am actively playing and aware of them!! (I have 131 unused Showdown Tokens!) I have not experienced very many challenges, so there are probably many of us who do not gamble easily! If there were no risk, the challenges would still be fun and exciting and we could all participate in the now much under-used Showdown sytem!

zeedee
Zeedee  (Level: 224.7 - Posts: 1088)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 2:07 PM

I also love Baggiob's idea. I do use my tokens, and I lose almost as many as I win. But I think I have only received a challenge twice in the months that I have been onboard. I would love to "play the game" without risk of losing points! I'm playing anyway--I wish I could gather up some of those unused tokens from those who don't want them--but maybe if there were less risk, I'd get to play more often than once a week because someone might challenge me then.
Zeedee

cjar855
Cjar855  (Level: 133.4 - Posts: 838)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 2:29 PM

You got my vote there. I also think Baggiob's idea is a winner.

sblv
Sblv  (Level: 188.6 - Posts: 337)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 5:25 PM

Thanks for all the ideas and opinions. Can we please hear from the management about their view on the situation? I know that sometimes you respond to even less important issues.
Thank you.



baggiob
Baggiob  (Level: 142.7 - Posts: 888)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 8:55 PM

See all the people that have many many tokens that they don't use and they are never going to use, can they all be transferred to me? I don't care if I use them all and finish last of all the players, I enjoy the challenge and the gamble. lol

berylm
Berylm  (Level: 156.4 - Posts: 478)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 9:03 PM

I'm another who doesn't challenge because there are just too many categories where I'm almost guaranteed to lose! I currently have 59 and no plans to use any.

I've been suggesting, hinting and downright begging for something to be done about the showdowns for ages now, my preferred suggestion being that the challenger can choose the category, since (s)he carries all the risk - but Baggy's idea is great, too, to remove the loss to the loser.

Or, if no changes will be made, let us exchange our tokens for wager tokens - at the moment they're just a waste of (electronic) space!

C'mon, Justin - you can see something needs to be done!

berylm
Berylm  (Level: 156.4 - Posts: 478)
Mon, 30th Jul '07 9:14 PM

PS Rowlanda - yes, if you've ignored all challenges, you have 'lost' every showdown you've been challenged to, by default! Check out your profile, you'll see that your 'Showdown Victories' percentage shows 0%.

For those who don't understand them - only the *challenger* loses anything if (s)he loses the challenge; the challengee (for want of a better word) wins all the points if (s)he wins, but doesn't lose anything if not.

So when you're challenged - go for it! Treat it as an extra TQOTD and enjoy, you can't lose anything and you might win a nice chunk of points!

bravegator
Bravegator  (Level: 152.0 - Posts: 428)
Tue, 31st Jul '07 8:12 AM

Bag, I have 103.. i'd be willing to share... if you promised NEVER to challenge me

chelle

kaelin
Kaelin  (Level: 49.2 - Posts: 1685)
Tue, 31st Jul '07 8:24 AM

when you challenge someone they do NOT lose tokens - the only one taking any risk is the person who you challenge - and it's the person that is right about you point wise.

I use mine - not often, but occasionally.

I had two big wagers in my favorite categories and lost a huge chunk few weeks ago. 4 million - was feeling really down.

Almost immediately, I began getting challenges as I had moved down to the 6 million point level - which I found interesting...that tells me those of us who are newer are more willing to take risks to move up the board...so I've gotten about 2 1/2 million back by just doing word puzzles, QOTD and answering challenges, plus issuing a few myself.

I look at this from the aspect of "Who's Line is it Anyway" -- after taking that huge loss - yes it's fun to be number one, but I enjoy the challenges - yes - defeat stinks - but I never know the "thrill of victory without the stink of 'defeet'" -- anyway - my two cents -- here's the point - if you are challenged - YOU do not lose your points -- you only lose IF you are challenged, so let them collect dust...it's not going to hurt!

Everyone does not play every aspect of Sploofus, so it's no big deal to allow them to collect.

Just my paltry two cents....now THAT's something I'd start with - a penny - doubled every day for a year

rowlanda
Rowlanda  (Level: 70.0 - Posts: 2856)
Tue, 31st Jul '07 9:12 AM

Thanks to the people who answered my query.
Did not know that if I am challenged,
can't lose any points if I'm wrong....

Maybe I'll "dip my toes in the water" next time
and find out if there are any "sharks" around !!!!

Rowlanda

barb
Barb  (Level: 183.7 - Posts: 38)
Tue, 31st Jul '07 2:33 PM

Sploofus, are you there? What do you think of the idea of taking the risk away from the challenger (putting him in the same position as the challenged person)?

tuzilla
Tuzilla  (Level: 134.1 - Posts: 3778)
Tue, 31st Jul '07 2:50 PM

My desire has always been to be able to select the category for the showdown. If I am going to risk points, I should be able to pick the category.

barb
Barb  (Level: 183.7 - Posts: 38)
Tue, 31st Jul '07 3:17 PM

That also sounds good! All these ideas are better than the way it is now: big risk with small chance of return for someone who doesn't have many fields of expertise!!

jespur
Jespur  (Level: 114.2 - Posts: 38)
Tue, 31st Jul '07 7:07 PM

Take my 124 showdown tokens, please!

Jespur

kaelin
Kaelin  (Level: 49.2 - Posts: 1685)
Wed, 1st Aug '07 2:29 AM

putting the risk on the challenger I don't believe would be fair - I mean honestly - if someone were not "into" doing challenges, what would be the point - at least for the one being challenged, they can increase their brain power by answering the challenge without fear of loss, and learning something new if they don't know it. I would think selecting the category would probably need to add another opt out (like the QOTD) - for instance while I'm kinda of okay at sports - it would not be a category I would choose on purpose, although I don't opt out on QOTD because I know some and don't want to miss a chance again - to learn something...

From a programming side, it would be alot more work - both on the server in the selection process to 1. look for the person right above in points then 2. look for a catagory they accept challenges in - which would mean a more intensive query on the server (sorry this is what I do so I understand how backends work, especially on a site with this many members).

The only fun thing I might be able to think of is an auction of showdown tokens - for the people that like showdowns (bidding would mean the points went to the person you bought from) for those that like them - and do well at them, because they would certainly be able to earn them back by doing the challenges....anyway - just some thoughts from reading the posts...I enjoy them - don't do them often, cringe when I lose and do the happy dance when I win!

sargon
Sargon  (Level: 112.0 - Posts: 1256)
Wed, 1st Aug '07 3:00 AM

If a system was adopted where no one lost points on a challenge would people stop placing wagers on TQOTD?

revdodd
Revdodd  (Level: 68.7 - Posts: 775)
Wed, 1st Aug '07 6:18 AM

Kaelin: I'll aver to your expertiseon this one.....would it require much more work to make the quiz a "winner gets the points, loser loses nothing" deal on showdowns?

In other words, it's like arm wrestling for a pot of money. The two showdowners square off for the points (determined by the challenger's point total) and the outcome hurts no one....but it sure does help the winner.

My limited knowledge of coding can't see this taking any morework than the current seup. And it should lead to some titanic showdowns at the top of the board.

kaelin
Kaelin  (Level: 49.2 - Posts: 1685)
Wed, 1st Aug '07 7:43 AM

Not sure how to answer that Rev, since it's not mine or my programmers script / concept. When dealing with queries and databases it depends on how many tables, crossreferences, etc...and I would not feel comfortable telling Justin /sploofus / or anyone else, this would be a simple thing - w/o knowing how all of the parts interacted - because I could be wrong. From the consumer (our end) - I can judge it - but without really knowing how it works it would not be a good assesment.

It's like the brand new (and I'm very excited about) program that we are writing, and have been wanting to write for years - it's something that literally is for everyone, and at the same time, we have to look at how we database information, how many tables, how easily they will interact with each other, keeping a common relationship in each table to call information from sub tables, etc...it's easy to lay out the structure, but how the server acts and responds, is the most important - a massive query can spike the server load, and that's never a good thing (think quakes) - so there are many factors, especially when talking about a large membership site (like Sploofus) - you have to pose if's like "IF every single member were on at one time doing something - how would it affect everything". Front end (consumers, Sploofusers) people don't care bout the backends, the who what where when or why - they just want it to work...you know like the sploofquakes. And when it doesn't it's gotta be analyzed to find out what's causing the issue...so changes that seem simple, as I've learned may have a larger effect then we think.

That's a long draw out answer for I don't know - because there are just so many factors.

revdodd
Revdodd  (Level: 68.7 - Posts: 775)
Wed, 1st Aug '07 8:55 AM

'preciate it! Sort of like why folks shouldn't second guess a cake without knowing what's in the recipe.

kaelin
Kaelin  (Level: 49.2 - Posts: 1685)
Thu, 2nd Aug '07 12:43 AM

Your right about the recipe - the ingredients are actually simple - however - how you put them all together can make the difference in a nice creamy smooth concoction - or one full of lumps!

barb
Barb  (Level: 183.7 - Posts: 38)
Thu, 2nd Aug '07 10:25 AM

It would really be useful to get some input from Sploofus!! Hello-o-o-o-o-o!!!

papajensai
Papajensai  (Level: 193.1 - Posts: 1025)
Thu, 16th Aug '07 11:47 PM

It would be useful and instructive if there could be a Poll of Sploofus players to see if a lot of us would prefer a "no fault" showdown system, where the winner gets points but the loser doesn't lose points. That would be a vast improvement, imho. The way it is now, Showdowns are the one sour note in my Sploofus experience...taking points away from someone else makes me feel bad, and losing points to someone else makes me feel worse. It's different making a wager on a QOTD, you have control over the amount, and if you win you haven't hurt someone else in the process, and if you lose it's your own fault, no one else is twisting the knife. As it is...I'm just going to opt out of that part of Sploofus.

It's just not nice.

zeedee
Zeedee  (Level: 224.7 - Posts: 1088)
Fri, 17th Aug '07 10:21 AM

Rjenson, in a Showdown, you never take points away from anyone. If you challenge someone and he "loses," he doesn't actually lose anything--you just get a number of points equal to 10% of his points (you don't get HIS points). The person being challenged has no risk at all in a Showdown. If you lose, however, you do lose a number of points equal to 10% of the points of the person you challenged.
This seems to be a very common misconception.
Diane

smoke20
Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Fri, 17th Aug '07 10:36 AM

The only thing wrong with it right now from my point of view is I don't have any of either. I use mine as fast as I get them, so what happens to players like me when the swapping and trading is done and the dust settles? This looks like a quantum change, and that makes me skittish. I'd be happy to see a system where the showdown questions would not be in either player's blocked category, but that's all I'd change at this point.

What happened to "save your tokens, we'll have head-to-head contests you can use them for"? I'd be shut out of that too but at least it would encourage the less daring players to take a chance and spend a token. Wouldn't it?

bigbird
Bigbird  (Level: 239.4 - Posts: 3302)
Fri, 17th Aug '07 10:40 AM

Smoke - I'd gladly donate my showdown tokens to you, if there is no other use for them. I'm sure never gonna use em.

I do believe that the initiator of the showdown has to lose points if he is incorrect. There has to be some risk involved; that is the nature of a challenge. That said, I'll never do it, and admire those who have the guts, but I do think it needs to be part of the game.

Alice

roccotab
Roccotab  (Level: 60.4 - Posts: 185)
Fri, 17th Aug '07 10:52 AM

I must confess I have many tokens, but I do use the occasionally, and I have never won a single challenge I don't think that I have ever placed. Either I don't answer correctly in time, or I have no knowledge of the subject. So I am a little shakey when it comes to challenging someone else. Although really what are the points worth other than prestige? Why not use the tokens, and hope for the best?

greyghost
Greyghost  (Level: 68.4 - Posts: 640)
Fri, 17th Aug '07 3:48 PM

Lol,i have 131 Showdown tokens,never use them,just happy to plod along and learn.

zeedee
Zeedee  (Level: 224.7 - Posts: 1088)
Sat, 18th Aug '07 8:14 AM

Like Smoke, I use my tokens as soon as I get them. I have a zero balance of tokens.


zeedee
Zeedee  (Level: 224.7 - Posts: 1088)
Sat, 18th Aug '07 8:16 AM

Oooh! I just noticed that I moved up today to a single-question-mark balloon! Or are they balls? Whatever.


philkon
Philkon  (Level: 268.9 - Posts: 474)
Sat, 18th Aug '07 12:24 PM

Could I trade mine in for Carbon credits?


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