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newyorkgoomba
Newyorkgoomba  (Level: 214.7 - Posts: 58)
Fri, 7th Mar '08 8:21 PM

CLINTON OR MCCAIN OR NADER?

Hillary!

donden
Donden  (Level: 112.5 - Posts: 2127)
Fri, 7th Mar '08 8:29 PM

McCain (reluctantly). In Michigan we have a sterling example of the "Dumb Blonde", we don't need another one in Washington. I think Hillary just wants to get back in the White House to get the rest of the furniture.

mrpinto
Mrpinto  (Level: 221.0 - Posts: 22)
Fri, 7th Mar '08 10:04 PM

Hilary! When she ran for the Senate in NY, everyone called her a carpetbagger who was only using the position as a stepping stone to higher office. After her first term, it was clear that when she takes on a job, she does it to the fullest and she does it well. There are very few New Yorkers who don't recognize what a fine Senator she is and, as President, she'll be even better. (I'll step off the soap box, now. Thanks for listening.)

smaug
Smaug  (Level: 141.2 - Posts: 2772)
Fri, 7th Mar '08 10:43 PM


McCain. Enthusiastically

He cowers from no one, right wing or left wing, speaks his mind, crosses the aisle for consensus, and is a freaking American hero beyond what ANYBODY, never mind Hillary and Obama, could handle in their wildest nightmares.



eesusbejesus
Eesusbejesus  (Level: 75.0 - Posts: 3645)
Fri, 7th Mar '08 11:29 PM

McCain.

Hillary wasn't using NY as a stepping stone to a higher office? huh.

papajensai
Papajensai  (Level: 193.2 - Posts: 1025)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 12:01 AM

McCain.

I've wanted to be able to vote for him for 20 years or so. Only thing I won't like is listening to the rightwing gasbags who won't think he's conservative enough and the leftwing whackos who will think he's the antichrist. He seems like the only adult left in the running. And...what Smaug said, too.

papermanbill
Papermanbill  (Level: 41.3 - Posts: 1313)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 3:47 AM

Joseph Biden was the best and got dumped. Hillary is a true Bears fan and would sleep with Ditka before Bubba.

donden
Donden  (Level: 112.5 - Posts: 2127)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 8:57 AM

I think that would be OK with Bubba as long as she let him watch.

joanneeberlin
Joanneeberlin  (Level: 184.5 - Posts: 686)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 9:21 AM

Love your avatar Dondon, I just love Al Capp!!!

Jo

donden
Donden  (Level: 112.5 - Posts: 2127)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 9:26 AM

Well, he HAS been sort of a role model.

newyorkgoomba
Newyorkgoomba  (Level: 214.7 - Posts: 58)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 12:06 PM

Hillary!

tsk9653
Tsk9653  (Level: 113.2 - Posts: 1466)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 12:23 PM

Well, I guess all of you McCain supporters must really think the last two terms of young George have gone just swimmingly for the nation -- so much so that you want to make it a third term, but you are stuck with his surrogate, McCain. If that happens, we can only hope the man is able to control his temper well enough to keep the U.S. out of more stupid wars and not incite WW III.

Maybe McCain really is a liberal -- like a lot of the Republican base claims -- inasmuch as he is constantly given a pass for his hypocrisy and do-anything-ambition to become president by his lap dogs in the liberal press. Yeah, that really explains it, McCain is a liberal so the leftist media doesn't bring him down.

The heros of the Vietnam War era (and the true patriots of those times) were the conscientious objectors who were imprisoned in federal correctional facilities -- not a guy like McCain.


smoke20
Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 12:40 PM

Um, That's Andy Capp. Al Capp drew Li'l Abner.

newyorkgoomba
Newyorkgoomba  (Level: 214.7 - Posts: 58)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 3:58 PM

Right on, Tsk! You can check out my Baby Boomer's Guide to the Galaxy:1967 -out in a few hours--for my experience with that. And you can also catch McCain's 'Bomb Iran' (Bar-bra Ann) on YouTube for his secret dreams!

tuzilla
Tuzilla  (Level: 134.1 - Posts: 3778)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 4:41 PM

So then, we can assume that his recent change to being a Baptist, which is a Conservative Christian sect with about 50-million adherents from his lifelong membership of being and Episcopalian, a more liberal sect with 5-million adherents is a fluke, and not a ploy to align himself with the Christian Right he needs to appease in order to be a viable Republican candidate?

alvandy
Alvandy  (Level: 229.6 - Posts: 7570)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 4:55 PM

I'm supporting Hillary Clinton

zeedee
Zeedee  (Level: 224.7 - Posts: 1088)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 5:12 PM

I, too, really liked Joe Biden. Maybe I'll just write him in anyway. He was the only candidate I heard with a viable plan for dealing with the situation in Iraq. That is, he had a PLAN, not just a choice between "we have to win at all costs" vs. "we have to pull out immediately".

kaufman
Kaufman  (Level: 257.0 - Posts: 3936)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 5:43 PM

So Liam, you're voting for Hillary because her husband would hesitate before sleeping with Mike Ditka?

I guess I've seen stranger reasons people select particular candidates.

smaug
Smaug  (Level: 141.2 - Posts: 2772)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 6:03 PM


Biden's plan was like an 8 year-old's bedtime prayers.

Giving the Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds autonomous power in their own regions would lead to exactly what it has there for centuries - genocide. Day One, Day 90 or after a year, at some point minorities would be forced to flee to their new "homelands", creating social chaos.

The sectors would eventually find something to argue about, like oil revenues, or border squabbles, and lead to civil war, perhaps one with Iran moving in as a "peacekeeper" with us gone.

Biden's idea to involve the UN is a pipe dream. They want no part of helping the US.

It is the sort of thing that looks good on paper, like an algebra problem, until you consider the history and emotions and realities.

You will never end sectarian violence in Iraq or the Middle East. Their religious factions have been killing each other since 763 ad or whatever. Look at Pakistan, Syria, all those countries have a certain "background noise" of violence, car bombs, assassinations, etc.

What we have to do, rapidly, is get to the point where we are not playing traffic cop, and can hand security over to Iraqi army and police forces. There seems to be steady progress in that area.

McCain really nailed it in one of the debates when people kept saying things about "getting out of Iraq." He said, it isn't about being there, it is about US casualties. We have had tens of thousands of soldiers in South Korea, Japan, Germany, etc for half a century, nobody cares about that. And casualities have been dropping steadily for the past 6 months.

I heard a great stat if it is true (not "great" but thought-provoking). It said that since the start of the Iraqi invasion, there have been more gang-related deaths in Los Angeles County then there have been US deaths in Iraq.

Funny, those don't get as much political attention.



maurlin
Maurlin  (Level: 213.3 - Posts: 2671)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 6:32 PM

I think Nader should start spelling his name Nadir. I hold him personally responsible (along with Katherine Harris) for Bush's winning in Florida and becoming president.

tsk9653
Tsk9653  (Level: 113.2 - Posts: 1466)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 6:40 PM

It's not just about American casualties; it's also about several hundred thousand Iraqi deaths -- not to mention international law and the crimes committed under it by the U.S.A. from the commencement of the original invasion to the abuse and torture perpetrated throughout the occupation. Moreover, just because the liberal media here in the states have cut back reporting on the continuing debacle that is Iraq doesn't really mean anything has changed in Iraq. But, of course, the reduced reporting is just proof of the liberal media, helping their candidate -- the liberal John McCain -- by successfully convincing a large portion of the public that things are getting better by "staying the course" in Iraq, boosting the liberal McCain's credibility and chances for election. Oh, that wily liberal press and wily liberal McCain.

sargon
Sargon  (Level: 112.0 - Posts: 1256)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 8:55 PM

In Michigan we are still trying to recover from the mistakes made by Engler. The current Bush administration has set the auto industry up failure by creating an energy policy that is dependent on the oil in the most politically unstable area of the world.

The Republican Party has to realize that we will never be secure until our oil dependency is cured.

So until their eyes are opened I'll vote Democratic.



smaug
Smaug  (Level: 141.2 - Posts: 2772)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 9:50 PM

Tsk.....

Iraqi civilian deaths are almost totally intramural, not caused by the US.

And, lest we forget, Human Rights Watch and other groups have estimated Saddams death toll at close to a million, even without including the Iran-Iraq war which killed a million. He was mustard gassing his own people and throwing dissidents into wood chippers feet first. Aside from his Sunni sect, no Iraqi would prefer his rule to now, where they have a shot at a free country.

Secondly...equating the liberal media with the liberal John McCain and favorable coverage....well, you lost me there, Sparky. I can;'t think of a liberal who picks McCain over Obama or Clinton. And the facts is that US combat deaths have dropped dramatically, unless you want to challenge those numbers as a conspiracy.


smaug
Smaug  (Level: 141.2 - Posts: 2772)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 10:04 PM


Sargon,

What is killing the automotive industry is the simple economics of a global economy that is killing all US manufacturing.

Any US unionized industry is doomed to fail in a global economy, and sooner than later. The numbers simply don't come anywhere close to working. You can't pay a guy $75K plus full healthcare and a pension to assemble a wheel chassis when some guy in South Korea will do it for 54 bucks a month (exaggeration, but is exactly what they pay North Korean guest workers.)

Oil -- I agree with you 100 percent. My solution is giant windfarms offshore and in the Plains states generating electricity and then electric cars.





tsk9653
Tsk9653  (Level: 113.2 - Posts: 1466)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 10:34 PM

Wow Smaug! You mean liberals don't favor McCain? Then whats with this nonsense I have seen you post from time-to-time about the media -- which clearly goes easy on mad-Johnny -- being liberal?

I'm afraid it is difficult for me to take seriously the political views of anybody who thinks it makes any kind of sense to have spent -- and continue to spend -- billions of dollars on the Iraq debacle, and these are borrowed dollars. But what the hey -- let's all cheer for the American Empire.




smaug
Smaug  (Level: 141.2 - Posts: 2772)
Sat, 8th Mar '08 11:06 PM

Tsk,

Well whatever.unless you are being sarcastic, and usually my sarc instincts are excellent --I'm not sure how anyone can say the "liberal media" is out for any Republican...

I'm interested...you're in Michian. How is Michigan feeling about their D delegation possibly being hosed?

MI is the 8th largest state. I can't possibly see how you can be left out. But Florida at least had everybody on the ballot. MI would definitely have to re-vote.

And apparently Hillary wants you guys in and Obama doesn't. Resentment building against Obama for that?

lblewis
Lblewis  (Level: 47.0 - Posts: 31)
Sun, 9th Mar '08 12:19 AM

Clinton. I like McCain but, until he picks his running mate I can't go for him. He will be 72 when sworn in and has had 2 cancer scares. In my opinion he is a true conservative, but a George Bush butt kisser. Bush has set our country so far back that it makes one sick. In my day a conservative was a conservative and not a religous butt kisser. George Bush is a fake butt kisser and has thrown our money away.

smaug
Smaug  (Level: 141.2 - Posts: 2772)
Sun, 9th Mar '08 12:40 AM

McCain's age and health are a legitimate issue.

The media seems impressed with his all day energy though.

And I think one of the best answers to it was when he trotted his mom out. 95 years old, sharp as a tack, and has a 95 year old twin sister still kicking.

But I agree Veep is important, especially if it is Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton.

If that is the team and he picks a white male, forget it, McCain is done. Have to be JC Watts or Condi Rice or Colin Powell.

Condi would be great, you get the black, women and lesbian vote !!

Hey, lets see what Obama can accomplish in his life and consider him in 2034 when he has McCain's life experience. Start him out with 5 1/2 years in prison.

lblewis
Lblewis  (Level: 47.0 - Posts: 31)
Sun, 9th Mar '08 12:41 AM

We should have never bombed and DECLARED war against Iraq. Every business George Bush was involed in failed. Who bailed him out? His Daddy's friends. For heavens sake the man couldn't own a baseball team. Why when elected did he surround himself with Daddy's friends? He owed them for bailing him out of his failures. Maybe if when elected he had surrounded himself with more progresive thinkers who weren't people he had to PAY back we wouldn't be in this mess.

sargon
Sargon  (Level: 112.0 - Posts: 1256)
Sun, 9th Mar '08 9:30 AM

Revoting in Michigan would be senseless. The Republicans are crossing over in droves to support Clinton and prolong the primary process for the Democrats. Obama would have pulled away after the Texas-Ohio votes if there hadn't been any cross over votes.

Not declaring a preference only making an observation.

tsk9653
Tsk9653  (Level: 113.2 - Posts: 1466)
Sun, 9th Mar '08 9:35 AM

Smaug, with respect to Michigan's primary, the current situation does not seem to be that big of a deal. The Clinton folk want -- including our useless governor -- wanted to allocate delegates based on the original primary vote because Clinton would get the majority, but opposition to this scheme from Obama is apparently understandable to just about everybody, so it doesn't seem to be hurting him.

The governor has now called for a redo, paid by the DNC, and has characterized the current situation of Dem disenfranchisement as something the DNC created so its "the DNC's problem to fix". No mention that the legislature selected an early primary date that she went along with, knowing in advance that the DNC would not count the primary results in Michigan. But this is the kind of "responsibility" I have come to expect from elected officials in general, and our useless governor in particular.

Anyway, there has been no serious redo proposal, so Obama has not really opposed anything to make Michigan voters count that anybody here sees as reasonable (except some Clinton partisans). Thus, Obama has so far not been hurt by the situation.

smaug
Smaug  (Level: 141.2 - Posts: 2772)
Sun, 9th Mar '08 10:00 AM


Well, I see that tension as inevitable. I have seen estimates as high as 90 delegates net accruing to HRC if Florida and Michigan are counted. Obama only has a 110 vote lead, and Hillary should mop up in the next substantial primary, Pennsylvania. Plus supers will flood to her once she looks viable.

Michigan will be crucial for Obama, he'll do everything to block it I think. Through surrogates if he can, of course...

iautah
Iautah  (Level: 213.6 - Posts: 91)
Sun, 9th Mar '08 10:01 AM

Clinton, McCain and Nader are all very evil. If the choices are between those three, I will not vote.

Iautah

smaug
Smaug  (Level: 141.2 - Posts: 2772)
Sun, 9th Mar '08 10:46 AM


Sargon,

I have yet to find a single analysis that says Clinton benefits more than Obama in open races. He tends to bring in independents and new unregistered voters.

joanneeberlin
Joanneeberlin  (Level: 184.5 - Posts: 686)
Sun, 9th Mar '08 11:56 AM

Thanks Smoke, I forgot I guess, its been a while since I read Andy Capp!!

Jo

diva305
Diva305  (Level: 146.7 - Posts: 1651)
Mon, 10th Mar '08 10:23 PM


pocahontas1951
Pocahontas1951  (Level: 55.4 - Posts: 172)
Mon, 10th Mar '08 10:55 PM

Very funny Palma!!

I guess McCain is the lesser of the evils, I will choose him.

jank0614
Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Mon, 10th Mar '08 11:24 PM

I seem to remember Bush being accused of "starting a war for oil." I'm still waiting for that oil to hit the US shore. I'd love for all that oil "we've confiscated" to pay for the war rather than our taxes. Guess those who bandied about this accusation have nothing to say any more. Nothing like having the rug pulled out from under their accusations.

siouxsie
Siouxsie  (Level: 104.6 - Posts: 145)
Mon, 10th Mar '08 11:24 PM

Happy to be for Hillary!

texlewee
Texlewee  (Level: 34.1 - Posts: 601)
Tue, 11th Mar '08 12:03 AM

Brett Farve Retired last week. should his wife take over as QB for the Packers?

Just wondering.... After all, she has played an important role in game time descisions and preparatory work for Brett. He has often said, " I couldn't do it without her".

I think, therefore, she is qualified. She served on Players Committees for years......

kaufman
Kaufman  (Level: 257.0 - Posts: 3936)
Tue, 11th Mar '08 9:45 AM

Were you under the impression that we invaded Iraq for oil for you and me? Oh, we invaded there for oil, no doubt, but not for us citizens; check the P&L statements of ExxonMobil et al to see who's struck it rich.

And Tex, given that Favre was the last real reason to watch the NFL, they could do a lot worse than putting his wife in.

texlewee
Texlewee  (Level: 34.1 - Posts: 601)
Tue, 11th Mar '08 10:55 AM

Oil, Non Doubt? Then why not invade an easier target like Venezuela?

smoke20
Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Tue, 11th Mar '08 11:03 AM

Cuz Venezuelans are Christians?

kaufman
Kaufman  (Level: 257.0 - Posts: 3936)
Tue, 11th Mar '08 11:05 AM

It's too hard to spell?

smoke20
Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Tue, 11th Mar '08 11:05 AM

And as soon as Favre's wife gets drafted by a farm team and plays the game tough for several years at that lower level, I think she may be ready.

newyorkgoomba
Newyorkgoomba  (Level: 214.7 - Posts: 58)
Wed, 12th Mar '08 5:20 PM

Hillary

tsk9653
Tsk9653  (Level: 113.2 - Posts: 1466)
Wed, 12th Mar '08 6:35 PM

Smaug. I don't think Obama would care about a Michigan caucus. (I would be shocked if there were another primary.) First, Obama would probably win a Michigan caucus. Second, even if he lost, it wouldn't be by nearly enough to matter.

Tex. I hope the Venezulan remark was just to be funny. Venezuala has commited no acts of aggression against the U.S., although the same is not true in reverse. The CIA supported the unsuccesful coup against Chavez. When Chavez says he might not sell oil to the U.S.A., Bush calls him names. When Bush won't permit medicine and food to be sold to Cuba, he's a patriot.

smaug
Smaug  (Level: 141.2 - Posts: 2772)
Wed, 12th Mar '08 7:26 PM


Obama should be worried about any new data. With a big win in Pennsylvania, and Florida and Michigan falling to her, Hillary will be ahead in the popular vote. That could be very persuasive to the supers.

Besides, the delegate system is crap. Hillary won Texas 51-47 by a 100,000 votes, and Obama won the delegates 38-29.

Neither candidate is going to win without the supers, and I find it really hard to believe that the nominee coming out of the Democratic convention could be the person who lost the popular vote. Not after all the crap Bush-Gore caused about that issue.


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