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Winddancer41  (Level: 63.3 - Posts: 1113)
Wed, 11th Jun '08 9:05 PM


Yeah i actually finished the puzzle with 4800 points and knew absolutely nothing about ice hockey. So if i could muddle through it everyone can. Good job viper. Charlotte

Diva305  (Level: 152.6 - Posts: 1655)
Wed, 11th Jun '08 9:15 PM

I came out with all 5,000 points!
Cause I do love hockey and have one of the player's hockey sticks autographed.
Would you believe Florida even has a hockey team!

Nice Job VD

Mplaw51  (Level: 184.4 - Posts: 1581)
Wed, 11th Jun '08 9:34 PM

I'm impressed every time at the clever wording for these puzzles. Another fun one, kept my points too!

Garrybl  (Level: 291.5 - Posts: 6770)
Wed, 11th Jun '08 10:00 PM

I was seriously aggravated by this puzzle; and not because I did especially badly.
To have a level playing field the clues must be roughly equal; three of mine were gimmes (and anyone who did not know a bout hockey could look them up I suppose).
Two of them were about a championship I've never heard of and one featured a name that involved my working my way through 18 letters of the alphabet and I'd never heard the answer when I got there.
So the playing field wont be level for anyone who gets this clue or the other non-standard clues
There was a major/minor error of fact in one of the clues as well (reported separately). I'm disappointed that the checking process does not pick up some of these points.

Donden  (Level: 112.5 - Posts: 2127)
Wed, 11th Jun '08 10:18 PM

You took the words right out of my mouth!

Spacecat  (Level: 164.5 - Posts: 673)
Wed, 11th Jun '08 10:51 PM

I love hockey and though I enjoyed the WP we need a change . I will be submitting a easy baseball WP by next week.

Suzannec  (Level: 258.7 - Posts: 616)
Wed, 11th Jun '08 10:52 PM

I know very little about hockey but learned a bit more from this nice WP. Thanks!

Tresgatos  (Level: 214.8 - Posts: 4413)
Wed, 11th Jun '08 11:14 PM

You seem to have a fixed view of how a WP should be designed. What may be a "gimme" to you in terms of a clue could be difficult for other people. You say they all clues need to be "roughly equal" to maintain "a level playing field." I say it makes a WP more interesting if I find some clues easy and some more mind-bending. As for the concept of a level playing field -- I don't think that's possible. I think some people are naturally really good at these types of puzzles no matter what. Others excel in the WPs that reflect their own areas of interest, like the WPs on opera or movies or, in my case, the Galapagos Islands.

I know next to nothing about hockey and don't even like it. I didn't know what two of my clues meant, so I googled them. I took this WP to support Dan and to hopefully get my 5000 points and have some fun. Remember, this is Dan's first attempt at writing a WP. I think your gripes could have been aired after the puzzle was over and in a milder way. And I don't see what the big deal is about having to use up a lot of letters to get a name or a phrase. I've had to do that a lot of times.

Anyway, you seem to have some general criticisms regarding editorial checking, so you could post in the thread in Hotwire.

I'm all for constructive criticism, but again, this is Dan's first WP. We have been supportive and have encouraged every other first-time author. I think he deserves our support.

Dan, I enjoyed your WP, and I appreciate your efforts!

-- Geri

Bbear  (Level: 166.9 - Posts: 2297)
Wed, 11th Jun '08 11:23 PM

My husband is a huge hockey fan (his is Canadian) and is armed with a terrific sense of letter patterns and we do google a bit. This puzzle was extremely challenging but we really enjoyed it. My poor husband is sweating....have to go take care of him now.

Luvnmexsun  (Level: 147.4 - Posts: 711)
Wed, 11th Jun '08 11:31 PM

Well said Tresgatos! I think its interesting that Barry found inconsistencies because he knows the subject. Those of us that know none of any of this...found the clues to be very consistent. All Greek!

Way to Go Dan!!! ...It takes guts to face this crowd sometimes...but they really mean no harm.

My first puzzle wasn't a favorite of many...but many liked it too!



Winddancer41  (Level: 63.3 - Posts: 1113)
Wed, 11th Jun '08 11:35 PM

I also believe that everyone has their own favorite topics, and like i said in my first post i know nothing about hockey, and as i am using a webtv set i can't google or if i can i don't know how. But i think that anyone who writes a puzzle or quiz deserves a big thank you for doing so, and you take what you get and go on. Its not like you are going to do much with even a gazillion points if you get them, so just enjoy and life and don't sweat the small stuff. Charlotte

Iautah  (Level: 213.6 - Posts: 91)
Wed, 11th Jun '08 11:36 PM

This was the worst word puzzle since the one on Welsh place names! I don't mine puzzles about non-U.S. hockey, but I do mind greatly that the author did not seem to know some of the very basic facts about hockey, like what a team needs to do in order to win the championship of the NHL.


Toledosugar  (Level: 51.4 - Posts: 281)
Wed, 11th Jun '08 11:42 PM

Hockey is not my thing (spent too many icy mornings at the rink, when my youngest son was playing). The puzzle, however was a good one and I did as well as I usually do. So thanks for the hard work.

Pennwoman  (Level: 161.8 - Posts: 2476)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 12:34 AM

oh! DOH! so sorry!

Kaelin  (Level: 49.2 - Posts: 1685)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 12:42 AM

I'm happy with where I ended up - not a hockey fan really although I watch when Dallas gets there - this year was particulary interesting - I will have to say I definitely googled after filling in a few letters and getting a "grip" on what I was looking for...nicely done

Crazy4games  (Level: 124.7 - Posts: 1019)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 2:07 AM

I love hockey, and I really enjoyed your puzzle, Dan.

Aquamar  (Level: 185.7 - Posts: 925)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 3:05 AM

I'm not a hockey fan either but this puzzle was well done and I enjoyed it Dan.

Papermanbill  (Level: 41.3 - Posts: 1312)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 4:10 AM

I know and understand hockey very well. Hockey is the most beautiful and graceful sport there is,"IF" played properly. If I were Dan, I wouldn't have been so exact with a subject that most aren't familiar with. I think he could've started with the more basic concepts of the game before getting specific. One last thing, like a lot of occupations, in medicine and even in the military, abbreviations are a pain to most.

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 7:29 AM

Mine was just fine. I got a name I didn't know, but that was to be expected with a sport I don't follow. I'm pleased I could figure out a name I never saw before without losing any points.

See, that's the "challenge" part.

Lighten up, you guys - this young man upgraded to do this puzzle, so he threw down the big bucks to have this experience, and he did his best to entertain us with something he really loves. He didn't mess up your game on purpose, you know.


Davidf  (Level: 102.1 - Posts: 746)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 7:40 AM

I know nothing about ice hockey although I enjoyed the puzzle and I think young Dan did a great job. He is passionate about ice hockey and that can only be a good thing.

Papajensai  (Level: 201.6 - Posts: 1024)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 7:47 AM

Doesn't matter if I'm a hockey fan, or know anything about it, or whether the wording of the quiz was to my liking. Somebody put some time and effort into creating a puzzle for me to try, and I really appreciate it. Thanks for the WP and hope you do some more. Some people need a little more fiber in their diet.

Osuzannacollage  (Level: 132.1 - Posts: 1299)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 7:59 AM

Fun puzzle, Dan! I know very little about hockey, and found this WP to be challenging -- and I like that. Good job!

Every Word Puzzle is kind of like going to Vegas. It's a total crap shoot, and you never know what you're going to get -- especially with so many new authors. I love that! It makes it all the more exciting. I really don't understand a lot of complaints that the WP writers have had (editors and platinum players alike) because we all get the same puzzle. True, we don't all get the same five questions, but that's how the dice roll. Some of us are more familiar with the subject than others, but on the next WP it's a whole new deal. If all of them were on something like say sports, for instance, I'd be at a definite disadvantage. When it's movies, literature or history my personal odds increase. Doesn't that all even out in the long run?

And as to the individual style of the author, that's also a bonus that they're all different and unique to that writer. I'm an avid crossword puzzle enthusiast, and find each one to be a new uncharted adventure. As with crossword puzzles, Word Puzzles vary greatly from puzzle to puzzle, author to author. That's all good. I don't sweat the tense changes, use of abbreviations, subject matter or most of the past quibbles I've seen. It just adds more spice to the pot. We all get the same WP at any given time, and are likely to get many of the same questions as others. I just don't see most of the gripes as hindrances to my personal enjoyment. Now a misspelled word, that's a horse of a different color.

Just my two cents...

Thank you, Dan. I enjoyed it!


Pennwoman  (Level: 161.8 - Posts: 2476)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 8:11 AM

I appreciate the work put into puzzles, but I stand with the aggravated takers. I didnt find it clever or well written, it seemed copy and pasted to me (IMHO) Even the inclusion of a beloved Ice hockey great was not enough to make me enjoy using most ever letter of the alphabet to complete the puzzles.

Nelly  (Level: 179.8 - Posts: 1167)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 8:19 AM

Thanks for the puzzle Dan! I know nothing about ice hockey and was quite pleased to keep 4500 points (might have managed a few more but was running out of time). There have been loads of WPs in the past that have proper names or places that I've never heard of - I really don't see what the problem is with that, provided you can escape with a few points intact! I have found the abbreviations to be far worse! Well done!

Debbie1957  (Level: 45.7 - Posts: 402)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 8:50 AM

I knew a little bit about hockey so it wasn't too bad. I enjoyed the puzzle.


Garrybl  (Level: 291.5 - Posts: 6770)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 8:53 AM

I'm not saying Dan doesn't have a rifgh to construct clues about Newcastle Vipers players (I wonder why he picked that team?).
I AM saying that if one player gets a clue about Andre Payette -- hands up everyone who's heard of HIM -- and one gets the clue about Wayne Gretzky, you've created an unlevel playing field. And you should be able to work that out for yourself before you get the feedback.
I'm also saying that if you want to write about the Stanley Cup you might bother to check whether its a one game affair, as the clue implied, or the best of seven.
I'm not trying to deprive people of the right to construct hard puzzles; but you need to get your facts right and in my opinion obscure Elite Hockey League clues play no part in puzzles of this sort.

Kaufman  (Level: 267.7 - Posts: 3941)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 9:03 AM

For what it's worth, this is not the first WP that had an Andre vs. Wayne type disparity. It's not even the first one this week ...

Ooooh, shiny, there's a new puzzle to do now!

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 9:36 AM

I had Andre and Wayne. So what. If you do a puzzle about just about any sport except the obvious one, I'm likely to get one name I know and one I've never heard of. Big deal. I'm happy to get even one I know in a sport I don't watch. Dan gave an excellent clue and I had no trouble finding Andre in the EIHL wiki article with 3 letters.

Sometimes puzzles have stuff in 'em I don't know. Big whoop. Seems to me the folks who are complaining are the ones who expected to know everything about hockey and they don't like being down here on the LEVEL PLAYING FIELD with the rest of us.

Oldcougar  (Level: 228.1 - Posts: 1935)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 9:43 AM

Good puzzle Dan I got 2 easy, 1 med & 2 hard, so I guess it all balances out. Managed a respectable 16th with 5000, so I'm a happy girl

Papajensai  (Level: 201.6 - Posts: 1024)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 9:51 AM

Maybe the editors are used to these kind of sourpuss responses, but most of us are not. I'm just imagining this WP author reading all this and wondering why he ever bothered. Kind of takes the FUN out of the whole thing, see?

Maybe a nice bran muffin?

Revdodd  (Level: 68.7 - Posts: 775)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 10:01 AM

Garry: I think there are two levels of solving at work here.

One is for players like yourself, solid seasoned guys who vie for the top 10 each month. In your realm, the difference in having to use an extra five letters to solve a WP can be brutal.

For folks who play just for the playing, it's all good.

There have been a couple of puzzles in the past week where I rolled through most of the solutions, then got hammered on 1 or 2 of them....and when you look at the final scores, you can tell who got those killers and who didn't.

So, it wasn't just this WP (and I got one with a player I never heard of) ... it's a larger question of why we play.

Tresgatos  (Level: 214.8 - Posts: 4413)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 12:23 PM

Garrybl wrote: "I'm not saying Dan doesn't have a right to construct clues about Newcastle Vipers players (I wonder why he picked that team?)."

Are you being serious or facetious? Dan's user ID name is Viperdan, and according to his profile, he lives in Newcastle, England.

Garrybl wrote: "I'm also saying that if you want to write about the Stanley Cup you might bother to check whether its a one game affair, as the clue implied, or the best of seven. I'm not trying to deprive people of the right to construct hard puzzles; but you need to get your facts right and in my opinion obscure Elite Hockey League clues play no part in puzzles of this sort."

One of my clues was: Stanley Cup 2000. I'm not sure if that's the clue you're referring to, but that certainly doesn't imply a "one-game affair" to me. The clue tells you that the phrase will have something to do with the games played for the Stanley Cup in 2000. The phrase might have something to do with a player or players, a particular game -- any number of things. My phrase associated with that clue was:

new jersey devils defeated the dallas stars seven goals to three in the stanley cup finals

To me, there's nothing wrong with that phrase. It was clear to me that Dan was referring to the first game of the playoffs that year.

And once again, "obscurity" is relative. Clearly the Elite Hockey League is not obscure to Dan, and it might have been neat for other UK Sploofusers to see. It was easy for me to look up stuff about the Elite Hockey League while I was playing the WP.

Pennwoman: IMO, not every WP has to be "clever," and I think it's unfair to assume it was cut and pasted. Dan is a big hockey fan and knows a lot about the sport. I could write a WP about my hometown of San Diego, and my phrases might sound cut and pasted, but they wouldn't be because I know San Diego like the back of my hand.

Revdodd: I understand what you're saying, but I don't think consistently vying for the top 10 is an excuse for Barry's thrashing of a first-time WP author who gave it his best shot.

Winddancer41, Smoke, OSuzanna, Davidf, Ron, et al -- well said, and Smoke, thanks for pointing out that Dan upgraded to Platinum specifically so he could write a WP.

Dan, don't be discouraged by the negative comments, and keep plugging away and having fun!

-- Geri

Nelly  (Level: 179.8 - Posts: 1167)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 12:47 PM

"Andre Payette" "Wayne Gretzky" - never heard of either of them, but then neither could I name a famous ice hockey player! As far as we Brits and other nationalities are concerned, there are an awful lot of things that may be well known in the USA but not necessarily elsewhere! I lose points frequently on American spellings because I naturally want to type the UK spelling.

I enjoy the mix of WPs even though I may groan from time to time. The interesting, the funny, even the frustrating ones all appeal to different people, so keep up the good work authors and editors, it is appreciated!


Alvandy  (Level: 240.3 - Posts: 7692)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 1:57 PM

This was one of my better scoring efforts.
I approached this puzzle as I do most any puzzle whether or not I feel a high degree of confidence.
His clues were easy to decipher by utilizing googling/ Wikipedia, etc. I was seeing some commonality in his wording [hockey, finals, defeated, etc.] so I could take chances with answering quicker than normal. He also used words with many vowels- that sped things up. As long as I had a likelihood of not losing any points, I was more aggressive.

I also had Andre Payette and Wayne Gretzky- heard of one obviously . Andre Payette was easily findable by googling. [Note- He has two vowels in his name and the T is a letter I use frequently.]

So no griping from me. Dan 's puzzle was a great effort, and deserves only praise in public.

Now , if someone wants to write an AIR HOCKEY puzzle- no please!!!

Chender  (Level: 203.1 - Posts: 160)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 3:36 PM

I enjoyed it too, thank you Viperdan.

Revdodd  (Level: 68.7 - Posts: 775)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 3:58 PM

Geri: Oh, I certainly agree...and an occasional swerve by our WP'ers into fields that we aren't all familiar with keeps things fresh.

But I can relate to Garry's frustration (though I didn't see it as a personal trashing as much a lament).

And if you do a WP on San Diego, feel free to mention the Padre's outstanding shortstop (and Clemson grad) for a some gimme points to me.

I think his frustration can be summed in how Smoke handled her long-awaited (and occasionally feared) NASCAR WP. Instead of swerving to the obscure that only a few WPers could master, she kept her sports-related quiz light and approachable by all.

If she had tossed in a Coo-Coo Marlin or Flying Indian Roy Tyner, folks scrambling for a top 10 spot might have groused.

Instead, all the questions were pretty even as far as in-depth knowledge went.

Tresgatos  (Level: 214.8 - Posts: 4413)
Thu, 12th Jun '08 6:13 PM


Yes, I realized after I had made my most recent post that I should have worded one sentence differently. I acknowledge that Barry primarily criticized the puzzle, rather than the author. I still maintain, though, that the criticisms by those who didn't like the puzzle were overly harsh.

Anyway, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the other stuff. Since Dan lives in England, I think it's only natural that he'd want to include something in his puzzle on hockey in England, and especially about his favorite team. There are many things I've never heard of, but it doesn't mean I think they should be excluded from WPs. Just the opposite -- I've learned a lot by doing the WPs.

Revdodd wrote: "And if you do a WP on San Diego, feel free to mention the Padres' outstanding shortstop (and Clemson grad) for some gimme points to me."

Ha ha!

-- Geri

Garrybl  (Level: 291.5 - Posts: 6770)
Fri, 13th Jun '08 5:43 AM

And I promise not to use irony or sarcasm again; I should have realized that my tongue-in-cheek wondering aloud about the vipers in a quiz written by viperdan might leave me open to charges of idiocy rather than those charges referring back to the person who raised the question as to my level of competence.

From rainy Pau... I thought the south of france would be hot; not in the pyrenees apparently.

Revdodd  (Level: 68.7 - Posts: 775)
Fri, 13th Jun '08 6:19 AM

It's all good. y'all!

And I for one am thankful we have the opportunity to be discussing WPs that fellow islanders wrote! It's added a great variety to the WPs to have more folks involved.

Have a great weekend!

Pennwoman  (Level: 161.8 - Posts: 2476)
Fri, 13th Jun '08 8:17 AM

Well if nothing else, this has prompted a lively discussion! Tresgatos, I appreciate your thoughts, and I am glad to get a differnet perspective.
That being said, I stand by my c/p comments based on viperdans many posts.
THAT being said, writing puzzles or quizzes, means taking a risk and setting yourself up for criticism -- I applaud anyone brave enough to do it!

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