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Surreyman  (Level: 274.7 - Posts: 2776)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 4:29 AM


I gotta mention the latest craziness of European Union regulations.
Today, the Dutch follow other countries in banning smoking in public areas.
But their (in)famous marijuana cafes are allowed to continue smoking - as long as tobacco isn't involved!

Rowlanda  (Level: 70.0 - Posts: 2853)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 5:03 AM

????What do they mean by "public areas"
????Are you talking Bars and Restaurants
????Or are you talking sidewalks and public squares

Surreyman  (Level: 274.7 - Posts: 2776)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 5:26 AM

Just the usual in Euroland these days - inside bars, restaurants etc.

Bigbird  (Level: 250.5 - Posts: 3353)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 5:33 AM

Sounds like you need to switch!

Rowlanda  (Level: 70.0 - Posts: 2853)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 5:41 AM

Or roll your own
so people will think
it's maryjane....
but it's REALLY

Papermanbill  (Level: 41.3 - Posts: 1312)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 5:45 AM

Lips that touch marijuana will never touch mine.

Mplaw51  (Level: 185.5 - Posts: 1580)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 6:27 AM

Is it everywhere in the US or am I just accustomed to NY and NJ, we haven't been allowed to smoke in bars and restaurants for sometime now. The casinos in Atlantic City, NJ now have a smoking section. They used to be all smoking. It's quite a difference. I don't smoke so it doesn't matter to me. It's still jarring to go to a restaurant and not hear "smoking or non smoking?".
Some of the beaches were trying to ban smoking on them. Not sure they worked that out!
It seems sometimes that cigarettes get taxed fastest. That's a little unfair too isn't it? It's an expensive habit to start, I think they must be more than $6 in my area.

Surreyman  (Level: 274.7 - Posts: 2776)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 7:21 AM

I'm a smoker, but fully sensitive to non-smokers' discomfort.
Nevertheless, the total 'indoors' ban in the UK is totally non-sensitive.
It's ruined my pub hours - one of my major social sources.
There could always be the option of allowing a pub or two in each area to remain 'smoking' for instance?
And, incidentally, UK cigarettes are now $11 a pack, along with towards that for petrol (OK - 'gas'!).
And while we're at it, a 4-bed detached house is $800,000, etc., etc.!
Maybe I need to switch continents, not just to marijuana!
USites, don't complain too much!

Kaufman  (Level: 270.0 - Posts: 3941)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 9:14 AM

In the US it definitely varies state by state, but more and more states are adapting such laws. As a non-smoker, my pub experience is directly antithetical to Surrey's -- I used to have to choose between not going out and coming home having me, my hair and everything I'm wearing smell like a chimney.

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2812)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 9:36 AM

Darn, Bill, that's a HUGE disappointment.

Marsviking  (Level: 65.2 - Posts: 17)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 9:41 AM

There can't be anything worse than breathing in smoke while trying to eat, unless it's people on cell phones. If you want to smoke and die of any number of diseases, don't make others die of your smoke too. I agree that marijuana smoking should be outdoors as well. And what about banning cell phones in restaurants, churches, theaters, stores, and meetings?

Surreyman  (Level: 274.7 - Posts: 2776)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 10:12 AM

As I previously said, I agree totally with non-smokers' wishes.
Just leave we smokers one or two dark dingy holes in which to commit suicide!

Donleigh  (Level: 156.5 - Posts: 5477)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 10:21 AM

We've all gotten used to not smoking in bars and restaurants up here in the Great White North, BUT did anybody think of all those butts right outside the doors and other entrances. It's a great big outdoor ashtray and non-smokers have to walk through a wall of smoke to go inside any building.
The part I like is all those hospital patients standing outside in -30 weather in January, bundled up like Nanook, puffing away while their med pumps beep like crazy.
There has to be some middle ground somewhere but nobody's can find it through all that smoke.

Donden  (Level: 112.5 - Posts: 2127)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 10:22 AM

I quit smoking in '92 but my wife still smokes so when we eat out (often) and are asked the question we just choose the most appealing section. My wife can easily skip the smokes and if the smoking area is nicest I can tolerate other peoples. But then we are going to eat in Ohio tonight where smoking is banned in the bars and restaurants entirely. What's worse, a separate area in a building for the smokers or watching a bunch of smokers standing around an entrance puffing away?
I still frequent some of the local watering holes and am not offended by someone elses bad habits. Just as long as they don't fart.

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2812)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 11:37 AM

Personally, I'll take the fart. Not allergic to that.

Larefamiliaris  (Level: 135.2 - Posts: 877)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 1:18 PM

'Fancy a Smoke' could mean any number of things...

Surreyman  (Level: 274.7 - Posts: 2776)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 1:28 PM

I thought it meant 20 a day ................

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2812)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 2:24 PM

Don't be silly. That would be excessive.

Oldcougar  (Level: 229.6 - Posts: 1935)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 4:10 PM

In BC, first they made banned smoking in restaurants entirely & in pubs except in special areas. So the pub owners put in very expensive fan systems, special rooms & outdoor patios. Then the non-smokers said they wanted to be able to sit in the sunshine & it wasn't fair that there was smoking there. So now it's banned everywhere including within 60 feet of a doorway in public places. Now as a smoker I can accept not smoking inside, especially for those, like Smoke, who are allergic, but outside on the street with hundreds of cars going by polluting the air with dozens of toxic chemicals is just plain ridiculous. The pub owners are furious, now they have to pay to renovate again & as young people go to the pubs more & also have the most smokers per population, their establishments are sitting empty. I think much of this is just a smoke screen, pun intended, to stop them from cleaning up the more serious forms of air pollution from cars & industry. Also, you non-smokers, when I do go outside & get far from the crowd, so as not to bother anyone, don't follow me, then complain about the smoke or give me a lecture on my health. It's none of your business & I wouldn't dream of telling you that your over consumption of booze & or food is killing you. I can't help it if the fun people are all outside laughing & joking & you are missing out, that's the price you have to pay for (sorta) clean air. Besides, that might be wacky tabaccy, that's why we're giggling. Rant over

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2812)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 5:11 PM

Here it's based on if you sell food, and it's okay outside everywhere. It's been tough on me since we changed the trivia venue from the smoke-free British pub/restaurant to the tiny smoky beer and wine club. I make it through the two-hour game, but only just, and sometimes I'm literally gagging before I'm done; I get up the next morning with itchy ears, scratchy throat and icky eyes, and I can smell it still in my clothes days later when I do the wash.

Still, I choose to go there knowing there will be smokers. I have no desire to force the smokers to accommodate me when I'm vastly outnumbered and the law is on their side.

Eesusbejesus  (Level: 75.0 - Posts: 3640)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 9:57 PM

I about died from the smoke in Vegas. I grew up with a whole family of smokers and spent a good portion of my youth wheezing and trying to cover my nose & mouth. So I hear ya, Donna.

Scott's parents are both smokers. They buy all the air purifiers & filters but they just can't get rid of the smell. When the kids get a present from them, they open the package and *POOF*, a big yuck of smoke smell comes out. I don't have the heart to tell them we have to instantly throw everything in the wash.

Scott takes his dad hunting from time to time. His dad buys all the gear from Cabellas, buys all the scents you're supposed to douse yourself in to smell like game, buys special detergent so that his hunting clothes don't smell like humans, gets out the woods, and the first thing he does is light up a cigarette. Go figure.

Chickfbref1  (Level: 120.7 - Posts: 2011)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 10:48 PM

Chicago banned smoking within 15 feet of the door to every public establishment on January 1. I know that date because I haven't stepped foot into a bar since then. I'm a dreaded smoker. I'm not particularly fond of the "trailer" that exists outside bars, nor do I care for the inconvenience. I would personally rather stay home.

I used to kid my non-smoking friends that someday I would have a "Smoking Only" party, and if you weren't smoking you could get your coat on and freeze your ass off outside my house, if you wanted to smoke, you were more than welcome to step inside the warm house.

While I DO understand that some people are alergic and some detest the smell, it's a friggin BAR. The local "Taverns" are being killed because people like myself would just rather go home and not have to worry about the 15' in the Chicago winters.

There is a happy medium. Some bars are smoke-free, some are not. Just like some dining establishments are vegetarian some serve delicious steaks. You can't appeal to everyone, but you can't ban a meat eater from coming within 15' of the door.

Don't start with the second hand's all outside. As previously stated we might start worrying about the emissions from our vehicles before we start with the 15' rule.


Tuzilla  (Level: 146.5 - Posts: 3847)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 11:15 PM

Would you like a shmoke und a pancake?

A what?

A shmoke und a pancake. You know, a flapjack und a shigarette? No? Shigar und a waffle? No? Pipe und a crepe? No? Bong und a blintz? No? Well, then there ish no pleashing you.

Eesusbejesus  (Level: 75.0 - Posts: 3640)
Tue, 1st Jul '08 11:50 PM

I suppose you paint your yoohoo gold.

Bushyfox  (Level: 174.4 - Posts: 2402)
Wed, 2nd Jul '08 7:52 AM

Having a smoking section in a bar or restaurant is like having a peeing section in a public swimming pool.


Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4593)
Wed, 2nd Jul '08 10:13 AM

They say here that they want to outlaw smoking in bars also to keep the wait staff safe from 2nd hand smoke.

I've never met anyone who worked in a bar that didn't already smoke. I think that particular excuse is pure BS propaganda.

I don't smoke. But I do think smokes have rights. And I don't mind smoking in a smoking section if they have a separate ventilation system, as most here do. And if they don't, I have the choice to go somewhere else. What happened to rights for all? And making choices? And the free market? If restaurants don't make money with smoking, they'll stop allowing smoking on their own. The owners have a right to do what they want with their business. In my opinion.

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2812)
Wed, 2nd Jul '08 10:26 AM

I suspect concerns about secondhand smoke and the wait staff are less about their well-being than about the fact that their low paying jobs usually come with no health insurance and the rest of us get stuck with the medical bills when they get sick.

I also think these laws are an effect of the drop in smoking in the past few decades, reflected in the votes of non-smokers. The personal freedom of the smoker is trumped by the referenda and legislation backed by the majority. Welcome to democracy, freedom lovers.

Surreyman  (Level: 274.7 - Posts: 2776)
Thu, 3rd Jul '08 10:32 AM

On a semi-serious note, that's what's wrong with 'pure' democracy. A 49% minority can be xxxxxxxxd.
We should be able to be more clever than that?

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4593)
Thu, 3rd Jul '08 11:12 AM

Democracy shemocracy. One woman with a burr up her butt cause such a rotten stink they took the 10 commandments out of school.

Results? Prenancy: Up. Illiteracy: Up. Violence in schools: Up.

Oh - and what happened to her? Murdered for the large amount of money she had raised by her little anti-God organization. Years before they found her body buried on somebody's ranch.

And her son?

Became a preacher.

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2812)
Thu, 3rd Jul '08 11:18 AM

No, they took the Lord's Prayer out of school because of MM O'Hair, and plenty of horrible things happen to Christians and their kids grow up to be atheists, so I don't see what this proves in terms of democracy or smoking, even if you're right about blaming religion being removed from public schools for the ills of our violent society. Which I don't think is true.

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2812)
Thu, 3rd Jul '08 11:23 AM

Meant to say that required prayer wasn't taken out of public schools because of any one person, however much noise they made, but by an interpretation of the US Constitution made by the Supreme Court and upheld by subsequent courts all these years.

Pennwoman  (Level: 163.1 - Posts: 2475)
Thu, 3rd Jul '08 11:30 AM

My parents quit smoking 7 years ago, but my dad smoked 4 packs a day, my mother one pack a day (convienant - they only had to buy a carton every 2 days then) --- still when I wash walls here -- they run streaks of brown which is just beyond gross. If that is not an indication that smoking is not good for you, I don't know what is.

Eesusbejesus  (Level: 75.0 - Posts: 3640)
Thu, 3rd Jul '08 11:54 AM

I agree with you, Smoke. There are places for those who want to practice their religion and its not in the classroom.

Donden  (Level: 112.5 - Posts: 2127)
Thu, 3rd Jul '08 12:58 PM

I wonder what John was smoking when he wrote The Book of Revelations?

Rowlanda  (Level: 70.0 - Posts: 2853)
Thu, 3rd Jul '08 1:35 PM

Have you ever seen what Coca Cola does to the rust on a car????
However, nobody has banned that "substance" YET....

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4593)
Thu, 3rd Jul '08 8:47 PM

2 things.

1. Public school was invented in the U.S. so that all children could learn to read the Bible so that they would be able to know God. The Constitution existed at that time and yet prayer and the 10 commendments in school were not considered unconstitutional by the very people who wrote the Constitution, and they remained in public schools until Ms. O'Hare and her group. It was never voted on by the people and had nothing to do with democracy or whether the majority of people agreed or not. 9 people changed schools that had prayer and the 10 Commandments on the walls for 200 years. Gone. Suddenly unconstitutional.

Having a few good principles on the wall which might result in less violence and fewer pregnancies is out of place in school?

I certainly don't see much there these days that's improved since "religion" was taken out of school.

Do you really like what you see in your local schools? Really? And you think prayer and the 10 Commandments are a bigger problem than what you see there? Really? Prayer is the problem? You think public school prayer/10 commandments are the things really needed removed to make school a better place and to help make your children better people? Really?

I think those priorities are all convoluted.

2. Stomach acid is stronger than coca cola and would take rust off, too. I don't think most stomachs are very intimidated by coca cola.

Kaelin  (Level: 49.2 - Posts: 1685)
Thu, 3rd Jul '08 10:28 PM

Argue what you want about all the 10 commandments - it doesn't matter what you believe about God - these are relevant to everyone.

Honor your father and mother
You shall not murder*
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
You shall not covet your neighbor's house
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife

We talk alot in Sunday School about "God's Laws" and such, but we did an interesting study several years ago about how some of these became laws - i.e. Eating pork - did a lot of people in a tribe become sick and die because of eating undercooked pork, and did those that saw this or surived it take it as a sign from God not to eat this? Maybe

It took us in further discussions - which basically has alot to do with suffering the consequences of our actions - so it really doesn't matter if you believe in God or not, or you believe in His laws or commandments or not - that which is listed above has a myriad of consequences should you "break" them.

They are just good sense for a happy life...

Just MO

Kaelin  (Level: 49.2 - Posts: 1685)
Thu, 3rd Jul '08 10:28 PM

Oh Jank - I forgot
"I've never met anyone who worked in a bar that didn't already smoke. "

RAISING MY HAND!!! Even though I don't bartend anymore - now you can't say that

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4593)
Thu, 3rd Jul '08 10:33 PM

Kaelin - thanks for your posts!

Just out of my own curiosity, when you worked there, did the cigarette smoke bother you? Did the others who worked there smoke or did several you not smoke and wished it wasn't allowed?

I have to admit - I'm for whatever the majority of people vote for.

Fudypatootie  (Level: 207.0 - Posts: 1302)
Thu, 3rd Jul '08 10:40 PM

I've never smoked a day in my life, but I believe in property rights. If I own a bar and I want to allow people to smoke in my bar, a choice they make knowing full well the physical dangers of lighting up, then I think I should be allowed to do so. But of course, it isn't about democracy or property rights. It's about the squeakiest wheel getting the grease, which is what was meant by the original comment about school prayer.

I saw a story on the news about a bar in some city that had an exception in their smoking ban for "performers." So, the bar has a "performance" every night that stars every patron in the bar! They wear hats and talk in accents and quote from plays and just generally act silly (pun intended). I thought it was a very clever way to get around a not-well-worded law.

Allena  (Level: 268.7 - Posts: 1424)
Thu, 3rd Jul '08 10:43 PM

Went to Ireland right after the country wide no-smoking ban ... everyone was threatening to throw out the idiots who had three more years on their term... instead, the pubs built outdoor hidaways and everyone ate inside and drank in the hideaways where the cool folk hung out and the politicians started collecting mega taxes. Now, in the US a cartoon of 10 packs is roughly $69 except in South Carolina where all interstate traffic stops to pick-up a trunk full. The folks ceasing smoking and paying the taxes are causing the percentage to rise as the politicians try to maintain an equal level of cash for the sin tax... Unfortunately, as some quit smoking, the price of booze will have to be raised to meet the thirst for more sin taxes. This of course means that those in the pubs will have to compenstae for the decrease in smokers by paying more for Ale and of course ... the cheaper Ales will compenstate. Right now, beer, ale and bottled Water are slightly more expensive than gasoline in the USA. It won't be long before gasoline laced with ethanol will surpass Ale and bath tub gin will again dominate the market. I have been watching the German potato market and clearly, Schapps have taken off ... can home made apple jack be far behind? Personally, I have given a lot of thought to opening my own bar and having just neighbors come over for a ltttle home brew and roll your own ... might even sell tickets.

Lisap369  (Level: 61.1 - Posts: 992)
Fri, 4th Jul '08 12:22 AM

Very well said, Jim

Lisap369  (Level: 61.1 - Posts: 992)
Fri, 4th Jul '08 12:23 AM

Very weird.. can't see my last post that said "Very well said, Jim".. if it's not above then take this as the post lol

Rowlanda  (Level: 70.0 - Posts: 2853)
Fri, 4th Jul '08 12:26 AM

OK....put me down for tickets for the smoking lounge

Acofish  (Level: 59.9 - Posts: 98)
Fri, 4th Jul '08 11:36 AM


SHHHH!! Every time South Carolina's cigarette tax is mentioned (8 cents/pack a year ago when I moved) somebody in the state legislature proposes an increase to $1/pack. Never works! I was paying $16.99/carton last year when I left for Dorals, now, in Ohio, I am paying $40. Hope to be a non-smoker soon and not have to worry about the damn things anymore! I have made many, many, many mistakes in my 40 years on this planet. Smoking is by far the biggest, most costly mistake of them all.

I never understood how the government relies on income from taxes on smokes, yet doles out money to campaigns to get people to quit smoking. What happens if everyone quits smoking? Farmers, the government, the cigarette industry, and the medical community lose BIG money.

Donden  (Level: 112.5 - Posts: 2127)
Fri, 4th Jul '08 9:36 PM

I feel sorry for the people who drive gas guzzlers and smoke three packs a day in Michigan.

Lettermanfan1  (Level: 88.3 - Posts: 486)
Fri, 4th Jul '08 11:05 PM

The last essay in David Sedaris' new book "When You Are Engulfed in Flames" is called "The Smoking Section" and deals with his struggles to quit smoking as the non smoking world closes in around him. Hilarious! I highly recommend it (and all his other books).
I have been smoking since I was 16. If I could go back to just one day and change something about my life it would be the day I started smoking. I would choose this even over marrying my first husband (whom we all call numb nuts). Smoking sucks. However, I know I can quit. I've done it hundreds of times. ta dum dum.

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