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Bbear  (Level: 159.3 - Posts: 2301)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 10:58 AM


Over the past couple of days we have had two WP involving quotes. In one the name of the person being quoted was the hint; therefore totally googleable and many "5s" were gotten.
The other was "famous last words", the person being quoted was in the puzzle, the hints were clever and helped but was still not googleable until you thought about it a while. Plus, there were words in them such as "declared" "proclaimed" etc., that made it more challenging and, in my opinion, more fun.
Just me...but I loved the 2nd one and the first...not so much. Any thoughts?

Garrybl  (Level: 275.9 - Posts: 6608)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 11:33 AM

I absolutely agree with the idea of not giving away in the clue the 'googleable' information.
Quotes are about as easy as it gets to gogle.
I've no problem with googling I do it myself from time to time. But don't let's be spoonfed!

Revdodd  (Level: 68.7 - Posts: 775)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 12:15 PM

I really like (and try to include) clues that make you think while at the same time give folks solid hints. That said, I prefer questions that are tough to google ... if for no other reason than it makes me think.

For example I've got a WP coming up in a couple of days in which all the answers (I'm sure) are out in Googleland somewhere. But to find them, you'll have to decipher the clue ... and by then, you might as well wrap up the quiz on your own.

Lucimoore  (Level: 181.1 - Posts: 1679)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 3:00 PM

Earlier thread posted by Kaelin

Kaelin (Level: 26.9 - Posts: 1472)Tue, 15th Jul '08 10:06 AM

Thanks so much - I know there are gripes of "googleability" but oh well - for me, I think the words are important and I hope they are taken to heart and maybe make a difference in someone's day.

I think this thread addressed the googleability of the "Quotes" puzzle and I took Kaelin's advice to heart and let the quotes make a difference in my day.

Kaelin  (Level: 49.2 - Posts: 1685)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 4:05 PM

Hope I don't make you ashamed of me with this post Luci - and thanks so much for what you said - but this is the 3rd time Bbear has done this and I'm done - so here goes (Justin - please I just sent in my renewal for Platinum - if you kick me off - don't cash it!)

That's the third time that you have said something negative, Bbear, about the googleability of my Life quotes puzzles (puzzles which I submitted well before the FIRST criticism and that have been in the queue since the Platinum writing began)

Frankly, it is really beginning to bug me. Actually - the first time it bugged me, the second time it pissed me off - and now I've just had it.

All three times they were about my puzzle - so in my "abnormal" response - I'm going to say - if you don't like them - don't take them...since you managed to score in the top 10 on your own puzzles and then seem surprised that that's a "problem" with the editors, I know that probably won't happen.

Now, it's not just adding it to the end of the particular puzzle thread with the comments - it's starting a WHOLE thread.

Normally I'm very nice and take criticism well - but for some reason - and I honestly don't take things personally, you seemed to have singled me out - so don't do it again - please.

You've made your opinion known, now for the third time - and in SPITE of the fact that most people don't spend 3500 seconds counting the squares to get 5's like you do, they seem to enjoy them.

If getting the 5's and counting the squares are more important to you than the nature of the puzzle, more power to you - and to quote something you said so far back I'm not going to hunt for it "good on you"...but I really am sick of the google comments, not only on my "quote" puzzles, but on everyone's not productive.

I am in no way trying to stifle your "voice" nor take your enjoyment out of high times and square counting for higher scores - and normally, I just ignore the criticism - but I've gone back and made sure I was not "misremembering" and yep - it's me - so I promise not to do something bad to your post toasties any more and go back and channeling the "good Kaelin" by stating
"if you didn't REALIZE that you did this / said this over and over and continually" - go back and look at your posts - it doesn't need to be said more than once - and I don't remember how many puzzles I have in the queue that might evoke the same response - but try to remember - you've already said - more than once.

Thanks - I'm done.

Illiniamy  (Level: 105.4 - Posts: 67)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 4:18 PM

If every word puzzle was "googleable" to the point of getting 5's, I wouldn't like it.
If every word puzzle was "a lot of work" and took 70 or more moves, I wouldn't like it.
If every word puzzle was "somewhere in the middle", I probably would still get bored.

I like that some days are easy and some days aren't. I love the variety. Kudos to everyone who has put in the time and effort to do a word puzzle -- even the ones on topics I don't enjoy -- even the ones I sucked at.

Bbear  (Level: 159.3 - Posts: 2301)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 4:19 PM

I am deeply, sincerely, horribly sorry. This was by no means whatsoever a cut on your efforts; your quote puzzle had wonderful, thoughtful quotes about life and caused me to do quite a bit of research on the background of them after I took the puzzle.

I was just musing on my personal preferences, in no way was I making a personal slight on your writing.

I am really the nicest person you'll ever meet and feel just horrid. Please, please don't be "done"; your contributions to this (sometimes really hot) island is immeasureable.

I have learned. I have been properly and correctly humbled. I really feel awful.

Keep up all you do, Kaelin and I'll get my hind end into the time out corner, because I deserve to be there.


Keithr81052  (Level: 142.1 - Posts: 147)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 4:21 PM

pay no attention to the criticizm you get for doing wps, you can't please everyone, there are some wps I like more than others and in rare cases I might comment but I applaud everyones effort who takes the time to do them

Bigbird  (Level: 236.2 - Posts: 3300)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 4:30 PM

I do em all. I was so embarrassed that I forgot to do take one the other day - so, except for that one (I don't even know what it was) I do em all. Are there some I prefer to others? Sure.

But I think it is great that we have such a variety of puzzles here on Sploofus, and that there are so many folks willing to pitch in and write puzzles and quizzes so that we can all enjoy them.

I sure hope that all the members who can keep writing those WPs. Wouldn't it be great if so many puzzles were turned it that we could have 3 a day???? I probably just gave the editors a stroke, but I think it would be so cool.


Kaelin  (Level: 49.2 - Posts: 1685)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 4:38 PM

I could have taken that private too BBear and chose not to - I'm glad I'm wrong - and it wasn't personal - but I sat there and thought "what did I do to her in a previous life?"

Ah, there probably won't be any more from me anyway - cause I'll probably get kicked off Sploofus for being so mean...

Kaufman  (Level: 254.0 - Posts: 3936)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 5:00 PM

My advice, Bbear, is that if you don't like googling, by all means, don't do it! Take and enjoy the puzzle the way you want to. That's what I did. I knew I wasn't going to "win" my way, but so what?

Unless, of course, you're that concerned about losing a few hundred points on the ten fastest googlers, because from the looks of it, more than a few of the fivers on that puzzle were going to have to settle for bonuses of under 300 points.

Oldcougar  (Level: 217.3 - Posts: 1935)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 5:08 PM

No you won't Lorri, we love you Like others have stated above, I too, like a variety. Hell, I can't even goggle fast enough to get in the top 10 That's because I get side tracked & start reading all kinds of other information, which means I'm learning something new. Goggling, isn't all bad for me & I'm sure others do & feel the same You just continue to write what you enjoy & I'll continue to do your puzzles & enjoy them We don't want Welsh puzzles everyday

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 8:01 PM

If we can take it away from the personal for a minute, Bbear raises a valid point if we can discuss it without anyone feeling attacked

Sure, some puzzles are more googlable than others, some eminently so, which will give googlers an edge on the purists. This was true even when editors wrote the puzzles. My personal preference is for an ungooglable puzzle because I enjoy the doing of the puzzle (but I'm also highly competitve, and if others are going to google, I will too), but I realize they're not always easy to write. If I did a quotes puzzle, I'd put the author in the puzzle and have a clue for the ... clue. If I did a puzzle of quotes from one author, I'd paraphrase.

Another minor gripe - clues that include words that are in the puzzle phrase. Not singling anyone out, don't even remember who they are, but I've noticed it several times lately and I think an effort should be made not to do it.

Sploofus Editor
Sploofizz (Editor)  
Wed, 16th Jul '08 8:28 PM

Being "in the know" on Bbear's upcoming Quotes WP, I believe that she was looking for a legitimate sense of who here likes the obviously google-able phrases, or if there is a preference for the non-google-able types. I believe this is a question near-and-dear to her heart because it will directly impact the reaction to her puzzle tomorrow morning.

Kaelin, you have every right to be angry if you perceived this as a personal slam (but I really don't think it was). Rest assured you are not going to be booted off the Sploofus Island for a little show of temper. You didn't swear or curse, you just got some bad feelings out in the open.

Now let's all shake hands and play nice

Bbear  (Level: 159.3 - Posts: 2301)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 10:18 PM

Group hug!. Thanks Sploofuzz. Kaelin and I have talked privately and are okay. Thanks all, and can we stop this thread? I think it woud make us all feel better.

Kaelin  (Level: 49.2 - Posts: 1685)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 10:22 PM

I'm glad to know "pissed" isn't considered swearing

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 11:01 PM

Just because a WP is googleable doesn't mean you HAVE to google. If you enjoy it more without help, just take it here and don't look for help elsewhere. Doesn't that solve the problem for individuals who have a preference one way or the other?

Or is it just a points resentment against those who do google and get more points?

I don't think there's any kind of solution if you are one who competes for every possible point. Platpuzzlers will write as they enjoy and I doubt many will change their style for a few people when over 200 are taking the puzzles and making no comment at all.

BTW - Do you ever notice how miniscule a percentage of Sploofusers ever make a comment anywhere?

So I would think everyone is doing great. Writers can keep writing for your own enjoyment (especially since there's no reward for writing other than the praise of your friends).

Partakers, to take or not to take - that is your choice.

And in the same vein - God doesn't exist by majority belief. He either does exist or He doesn't. It's not "if 51% don't believe He exists and 49% do believe then that's proof He doesn't exist." If He exists, then even if 0% believe He exists doesn't matter one tiny bit (though the Bible says the rocks will praise Him even if not even one human does). If He doesn't exist, it makes no difference if 100% believe. Belief has no bearing whatsoever on His existence. It only has bearing on what WE do with our life and our belief and His honor for that belief.

How is that the same vein?

If 51% believe puzzles shouldn't be googleable but 49% believe they should be, it matters not one whit. The Sploofus Creator said googleable is fine and within the rules. We may not like it or we may love it. Either feeling matters nothing. Puzzles are written within guidelines. Complaining or bragging will change nothing about the rules in this case.

But remember - kind words are the only payment writers get. And it's stinkin' hard to not feel personally attacked by perceived unkind words.

Buy bonds.

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 11:15 PM

Well, for the life of me I can't figure out how Jesus and God got into this one, but I don't see why we can't at least discuss what makes a great word puzzle. Nobody has to be personally affronted if someone else says something less than praiseful of their puzzle. I think a discussion of preferences is called for, if writers have an interest in creating puzzles that others enjoy. We're all so careful to tippytoe around the delicate feelings of every puzzle writer, that we feel we can't be honest even when we really don't like a puzzle. It's a far cry from when we used to ream the editors without mercy (yes, I'm guilty too) over far less than what we accept now with a happy face and a thumbs-up.

Can we at least talk about this subject without anyone getting their feelings hurt? Maybe that's how puzzles get better, and we get better at writing them?

Lbh58  (Level: 40.0 - Posts: 161)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 11:25 PM

Using google is fine. Not using google is fine too. Everybody taking these puzzles has a choice.

Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 11:30 PM

(Smoke - I didn't mention JC)

Kaufman  (Level: 254.0 - Posts: 3936)
Wed, 16th Jul '08 11:36 PM

She has the DVD of your post with the three alternative endings....

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Thu, 17th Jul '08 12:13 AM

Sorry, duh me.

Rowlanda  (Level: 70.0 - Posts: 2856)
Thu, 17th Jul '08 4:53 AM

This thread is one of the reasons I LOVE SPLOOFUS
On another site, this discussion could have turned into
a really nasty, spite-filled, hate-fest.
I love that people here are mature enough to have an
honest disagreement, can offer a heart-felt apology,
the apology can be accepted, and we can all move on
with no residual tensions.
Thank you Lorri and BBear for your honest and open

Revdodd  (Level: 68.7 - Posts: 775)
Thu, 17th Jul '08 6:44 AM

What it boils down to is the puzzle itself is neutral. It has no preference on whether you Google or not.

When I took the WP in question, I googled ... it's not her fault I'm a lousy speller. But I mad a personal commitment to land in the top 10 this month, and get those Ginsu Knives, so all's fair. Right now, I'll google my mom's birthday to be sure.

But normally, I don't because the challenge is more rewarding than the points. Instead, I contend when you open the puzzle you have already decided "If I can Google this, I will" or "If I can avoid Googling, I will."

The answer, therefore lies in the taker....not in the puzzle or its originator.

Lucimoore  (Level: 181.1 - Posts: 1679)
Thu, 17th Jul '08 9:05 AM


Jank0614  (Level: 67.1 - Posts: 4597)
Thu, 17th Jul '08 9:14 AM


If I didn't google, I might as well quit WPs. They're just a learning and giggling experience for me.

Kaelin  (Level: 49.2 - Posts: 1685)
Thu, 17th Jul '08 9:21 AM

Like Rev - I make personal choices based on the puzzle - often times I get it fairly quickly - but if I'm unsure of spelling I'll google - factual inaccuracies are probably the things that annoy me most - I've gotten caught up in those a couple of times and find it irritating when that happens - but will normally PM the author privately if it's a Plat puzzle.

I look at googling in terms of topics I'm not as familiar with as a learning experience. I learned to spell so many words because when I grew up in my family (many of them being teachers), and I asked how to spell something, I was told to look it up in the dictionary.

The beauty of that was that I remembered because I Iooked it up.

From the PM's I got after the "Musings on quotable WPs", it was something that other people specifically noticed as well - in relation to my puzzles and I appreciate the time they took to tell me that they were "feeling" the same thing - now at least I'm not feeling paranoid .

It's a strong case for the fact that the written word can be misconstrued without the benefit of voice inflection.

I look at every aspect of sploofus as a learning experience and a knowlege application - if I know it - woo hoo - and if I don't and if I google to learn it - then I've added something new to my arsenal.

I had written about 10 puzzles - they are all sitting in the queue waiting for the next one to come - so what I've already written was there.

I don't know if others have sent in puzzles before one has been published, but most specifically if you submit more that one, your editor tells you - once the one that's "up" has completed, the next one will be put in the queue.

Like Smoke pointed out, I was educated on a better way of doing things after my first Life Quotes puzzle, but I was honestly truly shocked at the 5's. I figured that it would it at least take "one" puzzle to figure out how the "Theme" was being applied, at least on the first one in the series.

I was educated by another player in a PM about the square counting & such and finding quote websites dedicated to nothing but. With some of the quote authors being quite prolific, it was still surprising to me that 5's were rampant - but they were done and submitted and I wasn't going to redo them.

I enjoy them all - googling or not - and appreciate the effort put in by all the editors to take care of the Plats that are submitting them.

Davidf  (Level: 102.1 - Posts: 746)
Thu, 17th Jul '08 9:50 AM

I liked Kaelins last puzzle, then I would I did it in 5

If someone takes the time to write a puzzle then take the puzzle or don't, have fun or don't, is at the end of the day only fun

Heidi  (Level: 36.2 - Posts: 694)
Thu, 17th Jul '08 10:19 AM

Who the he-- cares?? The points are nothing but ego boosters or not. The googling debate as to fairnesss or not has been going on so long my head aches from it. If I do or do not renew my paid membership won't make a dam bit of difference to anyone-I began playing thiis game because I enjoyed it-mostly competion with myself. At times lately it has not been a "blast" especially viewing the posts in "Salty Dog" If I am having fun, I play if not I don't- I know, grumpy old "crone" but right now I pay so am entitled to voice my satisfaction or has been the case lately dissatifaction-raise h-- with my typos or spelling-don't give a sh-!!

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Thu, 17th Jul '08 12:39 PM

I don't give a crap about points. I piss 'em away a billion at a time, so why worry about a few thousand?

Nor do I care who googles or who doesn't. I used to, until I noticed that there are more serious threats to the integrity of the game. I was a hardliner about googling for my first year, and got roundly sick of being beaten by googlers. The one thing I so wanted to win was a WP month and the googlers were keeping me from it. So if you can't beat 'em, join 'em, and once I joined 'em I traded the moral high ground for the top of the leaderboard, so I don't point that finger anymore.

However, in relation to these two quotes puzzles: I happened to miss Kaelin's because of a migraine, but I absolutely adored the "last words" one. If I'd done Kaelin's, I'd have googled and counted and gotten a five, but in all honesty I'd still have enjoyed the other puzzle far more because it asked more of me mentally. I'm sorry, Kaelin, nothing personal, you're an extremely bright and creative young lady and you know I love you, but that's just the truth in regard to those two puzzles.

Understand that I'm NOT saying there should be no googlable puzzles; I'm only speculating about what peoples' preferences may be, and asking that they be able to speak up about what they like and don't like in a puzzle, so we can all learn from the conversation, not so anyone can be (or feel) attacked.

Revdodd  (Level: 68.7 - Posts: 775)
Thu, 17th Jul '08 12:50 PM

Y'all throw away points?????

How the heck are you going to win those Ginsu Knives....not to mention the pony????

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Thu, 17th Jul '08 12:52 PM

Got the knives and the pony. Dang ponies are hard to housebreak.

Heidi  (Level: 36.2 - Posts: 694)
Thu, 17th Jul '08 1:10 PM

My brother used to be extremely popular with the other boys because he could pee (used the nice form) the farthest. Am sure we girls would ave competed also if it were biologically posssible. This whole mean-spirited thing with the comments in chat reminds me of this whole juvenile practice which most adults outgrow. I admire folks like Slicko and Stoutyoungladd -among others- because they are genuinely smarter than the average-just pisses me off to have people say unkind things about anyone's quiz or puzzle as know they require time and effort-this whole "point" thing I guess is the object of this game but for me it is not. It is the fun I have playing-when that stops-I stop-. I know, who cares?? Linda

Bbear  (Level: 159.3 - Posts: 2301)
Thu, 17th Jul '08 1:17 PM

When God created Adam and Eve He was about out of tricks in his trick bag. He had two left and decided to offer them up to his new children. He asked who wanted the first one and Adam starting jumping up and down and yelling "pick me pick me", so Eve said "let him go first if it means that much to him". God reached in his bag and pulled out "the ability to write you name in the snow". Adam was so happy about this and ran off to try it. Then God reached in his bag....and the last thing he had was multiple org....sms. Women rule!

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Thu, 17th Jul '08 1:20 PM

See, that's the thing, Linda. I don't think anyone was mean-spirited, just misunderstood. Criticism can be very constructive; we just have to be grownups and get past the idea that anyone who criticizes is being mean. Sometimes they're just trying to help.

Heidi  (Level: 36.2 - Posts: 694)
Thu, 17th Jul '08 1:28 PM

Of course, you are correct. Smoke-should have included you when I named the "smarter than average"-sorry about that. You know I love you though-Linda

Smoke20  (Level: 62.6 - Posts: 2815)
Thu, 17th Jul '08 1:34 PM

I you too, dear lady.

Oldcougar  (Level: 217.3 - Posts: 1935)
Thu, 17th Jul '08 4:40 PM

About a year ago on a music or books quiz I got my first 5, no googling, Donna/Smoke got a 5 too, no googling. We were 17th & 18th, can't remember in which order, probably Donna first I was pleased as punch to get a 5, but it would have been so much better to Top 10, as well. That's when I decided if you can't beat 'em, join 'em, so now I goggle if I feel like it. On a puzzle that I clearly know the theme subject, for example, Easter Island or Nascar nicknames, I often pre-google & read up on it. I've learned a lot of interesting things that way. Almost all puzzles are partially googleable (sp). Just as long as people aren't using 2 & 3 accounts to beat everyone I'm happy

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